(because they told us so in a wt!.
w71 6/1 p. 330 par.
10 - "another reason why many feel there is no place for them in the service of god is due to the clergy-laity distinction that is fostered in the churches.
NotFormer : There's no precedent for MS ...
Of course there is a precedent for MS, just as there is for elder and overseer. In most churches they are known as deacons, which is a transliteration of ÎÎčαÎșÏÎœÎżÏ
Ï (1 Timothy 3:8). However, I would not defend a scriptural basis for CO and DO as such, although the principle of Paul visiting various congregations is used to justify it.
i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.
surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.
my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.
Sea Breeze : I remember being train to say this in the 60's: "We are not a church. We're Jehovah's Witnesses".
I remember that, but I remember it as Jehovah's witnesses, as part of the succession of witnesses in Hebrews 11.
in the past, we used to hear talks on:.
avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices.
why evolution cannot possibly be true.
Shepherd the Flock of God, April 2024, Chapter 14 ("Child Abuse") Section 24
One who has engaged in child sexual abuse does not qualify to receive any privileges in the congregation for many years, if ever; this includes minor privileges. ... If the body of elders believes that one who has engaged in child sexual abuse decades ago may now qualify for minor privileges, such as working with audio/video support (which includes working with the stage and passing microphones), serving as an attendant, or assisting with accounts, literature, or territories, they should assign two elders to call the Service Department.The assigned elders should call the Service Department before any congregation privileges are extended.
in the past, we used to hear talks on:.
avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices.
why evolution cannot possibly be true.
Vidiot : I canât find any info about this case.
RKJW1 DOE, respondent, v. WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETYOF NEW YORK, INC.
this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.
the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.
at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.
aqwsed12345 : while some Gnostic writings, such as the Tripartite Tractate, also addressed heresies, this comparison is flawed. Gnosticism represents an entirely separate theological framework, often fundamentally incompatible with the beliefs of mainstream Christianity.
The Tripartite Tractate was certainly a second- or third-century Christian treatise. Elaine Pagels writes in The Gnostic Gospels :
What distressed Irenaeus most was that the majority of Christians did not recognize the followers of Valentinus as heretics. Most could not tell the difference between Valentinian and orthodox teaching; after all, he says, most people cannot differentiate between cut glass and emeralds either! But, he declares, "although their language is similar to ours," their views "not only are very different, but at all points full of blasphemies."
aqwsed12345 : Furthermore, many Gnostic texts were preserved precisely because they were not systematically suppressed in the way you suggestâseveral were hidden or preserved by their own communities, not burned by the orthodox Church.
They may have been hidden or preserved by their own communities, as at Nag Hammadi, but those who described them as heretics certainly encouraged the destruction of their texts. Due to this, most evidence for the Valentinian system comes from its critics and detractors, most notably Irenaeus, since he was especially concerned with refuting Valentinianism. Obviously an unbiased source.
The point is that what you call orthodox in the second and early third century was nothing of the sort. Each group considered themselves to be "orthodox", or "true Christians". At a stretch you may be able to describe them as proto-orthodox but that is only in hindsight.
this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.
the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.
at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.
Sea Breeze : Early Christian leaders wrote thousands of pages in letters to one another combatting heretics.
Did you know it was not only "orthodox" christians that wrote about heretics. There were Gnostic heresiologies of which we have some record from Nag Hammadi, such as the Tripartate Tractate and the Testimony of Truth. No doubt Arius and others also described those they believed were distorting scripture as heretics, but unfortunately everything they wrote was burned. So, in this period, Christians of a variety of persuasions made use of the notion of heresy and used it to discredit their opponents in hopes of staking out a secure, enforced and recognised claim to orthodoxy. The fact that the works of Justin, Irenaeus, Hegesippus et. al. survived reflects more on whether or not they could be accommodated with the Athanasian faction at Nicaea than any scriptural truths.
i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.
surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.
my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.
Vanderhoven7 : Itâs not clear why the writers of the 1993 Watchtower lied, but there is it in black and white.
Didn't ya know. Nothing before 1919 counts.
this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.
the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.
at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.
aqwsed12345 : Constantine's role was that of a mediator and facilitator, not a theological arbiter.
aqwsed12345 : Claims of political imposition or suppression of manuscripts are unfounded conspiracy theories that do not align with historical evidence.
Constantine's Edict Against the Arians :
In addition, if any writing composed by Arius should be found, it should be handed over to the flames, so that not only will the wickedness of his teaching be obliterated, but nothing will be left even to remind anyone of him. And I hereby make a public order, that if someone should be discovered to have hidden a writing composed by Arius, and not to have immediately brought it forward and destroyed it by fire, his penalty shall be death. As soon as he is discovered in this offence, he shall be submitted for capital punishment. ..
this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.
the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.
at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.
Anony Mous : Where do you find that the teaching was wide spread and accepted?
Wikipedia reports on this :
Controversy over Arianism arose in the late 3rd century and persisted throughout most of the 4th century. It involved most church membersâfrom simple believers, priests, and monks to bishops, emperors, and members of Rome's imperial family. The Roman Emperors Constantius II (337â361) and Valens (364â378) were Arians or Semi-Arians, as was the first King of Italy, Odoacer (433?â493). The Lombards were also Arians or Semi-Arians until the 7th century, the ruling elite of Visigothic Spain was Arian until 589, many Goths adopted Arian beliefs upon their conversion to Christianity, the Vandals actively spread Arianism in North Africa, the antipopes Felix II and Ursinus were Arian, and Pope Liberius was forced to sign the Arian Creed of Sirmium of 357 although the letter says he willingly agreed with Arianism. Such a deep controversy within the early Church during this period of its development could not have materialized without significant historical influences providing a basis for the Arian doctrines.
Jerome wrote The Dialogue Against the Luciferians about 379 and there he said (chapter 19):
[Bishop] Valens and [Bishop] Ursacius and others associated with them [i.e. Arians] in their wickedness, eminent Christian bishops of course, began to wave their palms, and to say they had not denied that He was a creature, but that He was like other creatures. At that moment the term Usia was abolished: the Nicene Faith stood condemned by acclamation. The whole world groaned, and was astonished to find itself Arian.
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as âthe beginning of the creation of godâ in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was godâs first creation.
the scholarly greekâenglish lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that âfirst creationâ is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
aqwsed12345 : Therefore, while the Greek word ektise can mean âcreate,â the underlying Hebrew context allows for a broader range of meanings, including âpossess.â
The Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek so they would be available to Jews who could not understand Hebrew, which by this time was only a liturgical language. Greek was the language used by the NT writers and it is clear from the scriptures I listed that they understood and used ektisen and ktiseos as created and creation respectively.
I suggest that just as John, as a believing Jew, could not write "in the beginning" (John 1:1) without having Genesis 1:1 in mind, so the writer of Revelation could not write "the beginning of the creation by God" without having Proverbs 8:22 in mind. This is no "surface-level similarity". The people of that age memorised huge chunks of scripture as the written word was not as available as it is today. Their audience would always include Jews and so they would allude to OT passages, especially in connection with Christ, to show there was a continuity of faith.
When a Jew read John 1:1 they would immediately think of Genesis 1:1. When they read Revelation 3:14 they would immediately think of Proverbs 8:22. It doesn't matter how Athanasius and the post-Nicene fathers interpreted it. What matters is how the writer of Revelation and his immediate audience understood it, and the evidence is quite clear about that.
