Posts by Earnest

27

BEROEAN PICKETS:- VIcky And Mike's Story. "Judged To Be Like The Antichrist "

by buzkid in

vicky and mike hobbs are ex jehovah’s witnesses and ex beroean pickets members their personal statements and experiences within the beroean pickets bible study groups wasn't pleasant.

and vicky was likened to the antichrist because of her differing views.

spiritual abuse is becoming more widespread and the purpose of this interview is to raise awareness, provide education around spiritual and religious abuse, and to keep the public safe.

Earnest

In Studies in Biblical and Christian Archaeology in Memory of Michele Piccirillo, Jerusalem, 2013, O. Gutfeld and A. Ecker write about the ancient Greek inscription shown in the video above. As regards the dating of the inscription they say (p.168) :

Partial excavation of the cistern has yielded pottery dating from the 5th to 7th or 8th century CE and from the 13th to 15th centuries CE. The ﬂat base of the letters, especially that of the sigma, hints at a date between the 7th and 8th century.This date ﬁts well with the latest evidence of Christian activity at the site (Patrich J. - Tsafrir Y. 1993. “A Byzantine Church Complex at Hor- vat Beit Loya,” in Y. Tsafrir (ed.), Ancient Churches Revealed, Jerusalem, 265).

Unfortunately a dating of late second/early third century is wishful thinking.

18

JW BORG does not have clergy-laity like Christendom! 😄

by BoogerMan in

(because they told us so in a wt!.

w71 6/1 p. 330 par.

10 - "another reason why many feel there is no place for them in the service of god is due to the clergy-laity distinction that is fostered in the churches.

Earnest

NotFormer : There's no precedent for MS ...

Of course there is a precedent for MS, just as there is for elder and overseer. In most churches they are known as deacons, which is a transliteration of Διακόνους (1 Timothy 3:8). However, I would not defend a scriptural basis for CO and DO as such, although the principle of Paul visiting various congregations is used to justify it.

90

What is Your Favorite WT Lie?

by Sea Breeze in

i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.

surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.

my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.

Earnest

Sea Breeze : I remember being train to say this in the 60's: "We are not a church. We're Jehovah's Witnesses".

I remember that, but I remember it as Jehovah's witnesses, as part of the succession of witnesses in Hebrews 11.

30

Is it just me, or is Watchtower lowering its standards?

by ukpimo in

in the past, we used to hear talks on:.

avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices.

why evolution cannot possibly be true.

Earnest

Shepherd the Flock of God, April 2024, Chapter 14 ("Child Abuse") Section 24

One who has engaged in child sexual abuse does not qualify to receive any privileges in the congregation for many years, if ever; this includes minor privileges. ... If the body of elders believes that one who has engaged in child sexual abuse decades ago may now qualify for minor privileges, such as working with audio/video support (which includes working with the stage and passing microphones), serving as an attendant, or assisting with accounts, literature, or territories, they should assign two elders to call the Service Department.The assigned elders should call the Service Department before any congregation privileges are extended.

30

Is it just me, or is Watchtower lowering its standards?

by ukpimo in

in the past, we used to hear talks on:.

avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices.

why evolution cannot possibly be true.

Earnest

Vidiot : I can’t find any info about this case.

RKJW1 DOE, respondent, v. WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETYOF NEW YORK, INC.

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : while some Gnostic writings, such as the Tripartite Tractate, also addressed heresies, this comparison is flawed. Gnosticism represents an entirely separate theological framework, often fundamentally incompatible with the beliefs of mainstream Christianity.

The Tripartite Tractate was certainly a second- or third-century Christian treatise. Elaine Pagels writes in The Gnostic Gospels :

What distressed Irenaeus most was that the majority of Christians did not recognize the followers of Valentinus as heretics. Most could not tell the difference between Valentinian and orthodox teaching; after all, he says, most people cannot differentiate between cut glass and emeralds either! But, he declares, "although their language is similar to ours," their views "not only are very different, but at all points full of blasphemies."

aqwsed12345 : Furthermore, many Gnostic texts were preserved precisely because they were not systematically suppressed in the way you suggest—several were hidden or preserved by their own communities, not burned by the orthodox Church.

They may have been hidden or preserved by their own communities, as at Nag Hammadi, but those who described them as heretics certainly encouraged the destruction of their texts. Due to this, most evidence for the Valentinian system comes from its critics and detractors, most notably Irenaeus, since he was especially concerned with refuting Valentinianism. Obviously an unbiased source.

The point is that what you call orthodox in the second and early third century was nothing of the sort. Each group considered themselves to be "orthodox", or "true Christians". At a stretch you may be able to describe them as proto-orthodox but that is only in hindsight.

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

Earnest

Sea Breeze : Early Christian leaders wrote thousands of pages in letters to one another combatting heretics.

Did you know it was not only "orthodox" christians that wrote about heretics. There were Gnostic heresiologies of which we have some record from Nag Hammadi, such as the Tripartate Tractate and the Testimony of Truth. No doubt Arius and others also described those they believed were distorting scripture as heretics, but unfortunately everything they wrote was burned. So, in this period, Christians of a variety of persuasions made use of the notion of heresy and used it to discredit their opponents in hopes of staking out a secure, enforced and recognised claim to orthodoxy. The fact that the works of Justin, Irenaeus, Hegesippus et. al. survived reflects more on whether or not they could be accommodated with the Athanasian faction at Nicaea than any scriptural truths.

90

What is Your Favorite WT Lie?

by Sea Breeze in

i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.

surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.

my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.

Earnest

Vanderhoven7 : It’s not clear why the writers of the 1993 Watchtower lied, but there is it in black and white.

Didn't ya know. Nothing before 1919 counts.

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : Constantine's role was that of a mediator and facilitator, not a theological arbiter.
aqwsed12345 : Claims of political imposition or suppression of manuscripts are unfounded conspiracy theories that do not align with historical evidence.

Constantine's Edict Against the Arians :

In addition, if any writing composed by Arius should be found, it should be handed over to the flames, so that not only will the wickedness of his teaching be obliterated, but nothing will be left even to remind anyone of him. And I hereby make a public order, that if someone should be discovered to have hidden a writing composed by Arius, and not to have immediately brought it forward and destroyed it by fire, his penalty shall be death. As soon as he is discovered in this offence, he shall be submitted for capital punishment. ..

28

Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

by joey jojo in

this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

Earnest

Anony Mous : Where do you find that the teaching was wide spread and accepted?

Wikipedia reports on this :

Controversy over Arianism arose in the late 3rd century and persisted throughout most of the 4th century. It involved most church members—from simple believers, priests, and monks to bishops, emperors, and members of Rome's imperial family. The Roman Emperors Constantius II (337–361) and Valens (364–378) were Arians or Semi-Arians, as was the first King of Italy, Odoacer (433?–493). The Lombards were also Arians or Semi-Arians until the 7th century, the ruling elite of Visigothic Spain was Arian until 589, many Goths adopted Arian beliefs upon their conversion to Christianity, the Vandals actively spread Arianism in North Africa, the antipopes Felix II and Ursinus were Arian, and Pope Liberius was forced to sign the Arian Creed of Sirmium of 357 although the letter says he willingly agreed with Arianism. Such a deep controversy within the early Church during this period of its development could not have materialized without significant historical influences providing a basis for the Arian doctrines.

Jerome wrote The Dialogue Against the Luciferians about 379 and there he said (chapter 19):

[Bishop] Valens and [Bishop] Ursacius and others associated with them [i.e. Arians] in their wickedness, eminent Christian bishops of course, began to wave their palms, and to say they had not denied that He was a creature, but that He was like other creatures. At that moment the term Usia was abolished: the Nicene Faith stood condemned by acclamation. The whole world groaned, and was astonished to find itself Arian.