Posts by Earnest

75

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Diogenesister : ... the state run by the ANC ... has even passed a law that the song "Kill the Boar, kill the Farmer" is no longer hate speech & legal to sing.

The ANC have not passed a law that the song Dubul' ibhunu ("Kill the Boer") is no longer hate speech.

It was declared "hate speech" in a court case in 2011. In 2019 the SAHRC heard five complaints against Malema and found that none of them constituted "hate speech". In 2023 a court found that the SAHRC did not have the powers to decide that and set aside their ruling. Eventually, the matter went before the Supreme Court of Appeal in 2024, and that court decided that in a specific context the song was not "hate speech". Read the judgment.

As elsewhere, the courts had to balance between freedom of expression and hate speech. They have had to do that in the USA, in the UK, and elsewhere. They do not always get it right. But my point is that this is a legal balancing act. It was not decided by parliament passing a law. It was decided by the Supreme Court of Appeal how the law should be applied.

Diogenesister : Convicted murderer's have stated IN COURT that they where encouraged by the song & the sentiments therein to murder "the whites".

Yes. Most criminals try to justify their crimes when they are caught and South African criminals are no different. But when the courts considered whether or not it was hate speech, they finally concluded on the evidence before them that the song was not responsible for farm murders.

75

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

DATA-DOG : I note your correction that Ramaphosa did not refer to anyone leaving South Africa as traitors, as you had alleged.

He said "[South Africans] don't run away from our problems. We must stay here and solve our problems. When you run away you are a coward." I agree that is a broad sweep. Every person has their reasons for staying or leaving. But there is no doubt it is better for the country if they stay.

How about your other allegations.

DATA-DOG : [There are] laws being passed to take possession of Farmlands ran be White Farmers

Can you provide a link to any South African law which has been passed to take possession of Farmlands run by White Farmers. Please show what the law itself says, not some propaganda from the right or left.

DATA-DOG : Are you so naive as to believe the SA Government would openly say, “Let’s kill all the White people!”??

Anony Mous alleged there are attacks being called for by leaders in the current government. I am glad that you accept that is not true.

DATA-DOG : They just allow policies to be enacted that facilitate [calling for the murder of white people]

What enacted policies do you have in mind which facilitate the call for murder? Please be specific.

DATA-DOG : Leftist Politicians in America ... just bussed groups of “activists” around and looked the other way, or bailed their key players out of jail

Are you seriously implying that the ANC is in league with Malema and the Economic Freedom Fighters? Then you know less than the little knowledge of South African politics with which I had credited you.

75

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

DATA-DOG : [Ramaphosa] referred to anyone leaving SA as traitors.

Not during his discussion with Trump, nor anywhere else as far as I could ascertain. Perhaps you have a reference or is this just another unsupported slur?

DATA-DOG : He’s going to play ball with the USA, 100%.

Of course. The USA has the power to cripple South Africa with tariffs or even sanctions. But you are deflecting from my request for evidence that farm attacks are called for by leaders in the current government, as you alleged. It's not true and you know it.

75

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

DATA-DOG : So, we just wait until later, if a Court somewhere says it’s a Genocide then cool!

Sure. Perhaps something like the case that South Africa brought against Israel before the International Court of Justice. As slimboyfat observed, "it’s hard to escape the conclusion that the distortion of the history of South Africa is in the service of distorting current apartheid in Israel and Palestine...all because South Africa had the temerity to call out genocide when they saw it."

Did it occur to you that describing the murder of one farmer a week in a country where eighty-five people are murdered every day as genocide, deflects attention from the case against Israel. Do you know what I mean? People will think how can South Africa accuse Israel of genocide when you see what is happening in their country. I do not think it is a coincidence that South Africa is accused of genocide by the very people who support Israel.

DATA-DOG : Also, of course SA’s President denied it, and then he got a bitch-slap of truth in real time.

Hardly. Did you notice that when Trump was going through his newspaper cuttings he wouldn't allow Ramaphosa to actually read them and make some response. It was just showmanship. But if there is any truth that farm attacks are called for by leaders in the current government, as you allege, then just provide the evidence. That shouldn't be too difficult unless it doesn't exist.

75

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Anony Mous : there are laws specifically against white farmers

Please show any South African law which is specifically against white farmers. And provide a link to the law, not some propaganda from the right or left.

Anony Mous : there are attacks being called for by leaders in the current government

Please provide any evidence which shows attacks are called for by leaders in the current government. This was absolutely denied by the President when he met with Mr Trump.

I can hardly ignore the evidence when you provide none, or the evidence you do provide contradicts your allegations.

75

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

The key element that distinguishes genocide from other mass killings is the specific intent to destroy a particular group as such. This intent, known legally as "dolus specialis," must be proven for a court to determine that genocide has occurred.

Consider the Holocaust, the Rwandan genocide against the Tutsi population, the Armenian genocide, and the Srebrenica massacre during the Bosnian War, which were all genocides. What do they have in common with the murder of white farmers? There are no laws discriminating against white farmers. There is no attempt by government to demonise them. The use of the word "genocide" to describe the murder of white farmers, robs the word of the true horror of its meaning, and minimises those events when it really did occur.

35

Reddit thread on convention video urging cutting off contact with Faders

by LongHairGal in

jw
friends

i just read this.

don’t know if anybody here has seen the video.. the intended result of this is to obviously scare ‘faders’ out of the shadows.

now, they are being threatened with loss of association with their loved ones and friends.

Earnest

blondie : it wasn't written policy, but a talk was given at one congregation I was at that even married jws could not hold hands or put their arm over the shoulder of the spouse during the meeting.

There was, in fact, a Watchtower, November 15, 2009, on how we comport ourselves during public prayer. It says (p.6, para.19) :

When we are being represented in public prayer, we need to display reverential “fear of God.” (1 Pet. 2:17) There may be a proper time and place for some actions that would be inappropriate at a Christian meeting. (Eccl. 3:1) For instance, suppose someone sought to have all in a group link arms or hold hands during such a prayer. This might offend or distract some, including visitors who do not share our beliefs. Some marriage mates might discreetly hold hands, but if they embraced each other during public prayer, those who got a glimpse of such conduct might be stumbled. They might think or get the impression that the couple was focusing on their romantic relationship instead of reverence for Jehovah. Out of deep respect for him, let us therefore “do all things for God’s glory” and avoid conduct that could distract, shock, or stumble anyone.—1 Cor. 10:31, 32; 2 Cor. 6:3.

I suspect that some did not read this article closely enough to realise it was speaking about holding hands in a group, but just remembered we should not be holding hands. Or interpreted putting an arm over the shoulder of a spouse as "embracing each other". Unfortunately you will always get some who just love to make rules. This was discussed in an earlier thread here.

75

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Diogenesister : It was better run under British rule. Sorry if it doesn't suit your agenda or ideology, but there you are.

We all have our prejudices, and growing up in apartheid South Africa I know I have mine. But I do not have an agenda or ideology when giving some context to the situation in South Africa.

I lived in a suburb of Johannesburg for several years and agree that the CBD has changed beyond recognition. It is an African city in Africa. But you should not think that all of Johannesburg looks like that. If you go to the suburbs of Sandton or Houghton or Parktown you will find opulent shopping malls equivalent to anything in Europe - clean, safe, a pleasure. Johannesburg has the highest concentration of millionaires in Africa. But they don't live in the CBD!

When you say they were better run under British rule, that was a long time ago. Britain last ruled the Cape Colony and Natal before 1910 when the country became a union. It became a republic in 1961. If what you mean is that it was better run under white rule then in some respects I would agree. The streets of Johannesburg CBD were relatively clean and safe, although even in my time Hillbrow (a residential area in the CBD) was a bit wild. But if you were black you had to have a pass (written permission) to be in Johannesburg at all. You would most likely live in the South Western townships (Soweto) and have to travel in every day. And if you didn't have your pass and were questioned by the police you would go to gaol, even if you had only forgotten it at home. Your schooling would be at a lower academic level than white schooling unless you could afford private education. Almost all management jobs were reserved for whites. I could go on and on about the daily humiliations that black people were subject to. The country was "better run" at the expense of the majority.

As regards the interview video between Winston Marshall and James Glancy, I was pleasantly surprised to find Glancy quite well-informed. I will respond to that in a future post as it is important to note just what he does say, and what he does not.

35

Reddit thread on convention video urging cutting off contact with Faders

by LongHairGal in

jw
friends

i just read this.

don’t know if anybody here has seen the video.. the intended result of this is to obviously scare ‘faders’ out of the shadows.

now, they are being threatened with loss of association with their loved ones and friends.

Earnest

Anony Mous : according to JW the Bible and its message was addressed exclusively to the 144,000 ‘faithful and discreet slave’ which according to modern interpretation is exclusively members of the governing body.

This is untrue on several counts. First of all it conflates the 144,000 and the 'faithful and discreet slave'. Secondly, it confuses the 144,000 with the remnant, those who are still on earth. Thirdly, it conflates the message of the New Testament with "the Bible and its message".

What is understood is that the message of the New Testament in particular was addressed exclusively to those with a heavenly hope, whenever they lived. Reference to the 'faithful and discreet slave' is a red herring, and so when the understanding of the 'faithful and discreet slave' changed, there was no change to the thought that the NT was addressed to all those on earth with a heavenly hope.

3

Not on JW.com. Hebrides Islanders finally get refreshment! JW Kingdom Hall is turned into a juice bar!

by Balaamsass2 in

plans to turn former jehovah's witness meeting hall into juice bar lodged.

the upper floor space of the former meeting hall in stornoway would be transformed into a cafe under the proposals.. plans to convert a former jehovah’s witness meeting hall to a juice bar and cafe in stornoway are among recent planning applications made to comhairle nan eilean siar.. the application would change the use of the former jehovah’s witnesses meeting hall at 30 church street into a juice bar and cafe.. the proposal would see the upper floor space of the former meeting hall being converted to designs by dbm design and engineering for the applicant, joanna morrison.

details of the proposals can be found on comhairle nan eilean siar’s online planning portal, with a deadline for comments on monday june 2.. meanwhile plans for a new house to be built at 3a horgabost, isle of harris, have been submitted to the comhairle by local resident, johnathon mackay.

Earnest

Former Stornoway Kingdom Hall at 30 Church Street (upper floor)

Current Stornoway Kingdom Hall at Perceval Road North.