time and again the refrain is heard that belief and science are mutually exclusive, that belief somehow corrupts good science, that belief is not empirical.
i'd like to throw another slant on that, if i may.. belief is an inherent part of the human psyche.
the desire to know more about our environment and how it all works is also an inherent part of our psyche.
Terry I understand you. The JW religion is exactly as you've described - an exhausting game with opposing sides battling it out, but a very damaging one and in the end very meaningless and artificial. IThe worst part is we aren't allowed to stop playing!
Science and the study of it is more satisfying and real.
I find that faith is too. Reasonable testable faith
time and again the refrain is heard that belief and science are mutually exclusive, that belief somehow corrupts good science, that belief is not empirical.
i'd like to throw another slant on that, if i may.. belief is an inherent part of the human psyche.
the desire to know more about our environment and how it all works is also an inherent part of our psyche.
I would raise another point regarding the issue of "belief". The stability of any belief is wholly dependent upon memory. Beliefs are cognitive 'structures' with a physical correlate in the brain. Memory, as you know, is wholly dependent on specific neural circuits. Unfortunately, as we are beginning to realize, "memory" itself is a COMPLETELY plastic phenomena, encoded by malleable biochemical events across synapses. They exhibit very little stability over time, are completely modulated, modified (and or falsified!) and reformulated over time and following emotional events.
Given the plastic, unstable nature of memory, how can any "belief" based upon "experience" be believed......
In view of the above I think its truly remarkable then that we even have a consciousness and an ongoing identity at all! the fact is though that we do
(sorry got a little confused with the highlighters)
time and again the refrain is heard that belief and science are mutually exclusive, that belief somehow corrupts good science, that belief is not empirical.
i'd like to throw another slant on that, if i may.. belief is an inherent part of the human psyche.
the desire to know more about our environment and how it all works is also an inherent part of our psyche.
My intuition tells me that I'm jumping in way over my head. But Terry your post got me thinking. For me the science of belief is more akin to the science of love for instance or the science justice. Am i makinfg sense.......
wow, i'm asking elders for advice, how strange.
anyway if you want to know my history and where i am look at my first 1/2 dozen or so posts, it'll bring you up to speed.
here's where i need advice.
A practical tip. To alleviate boredom at the meetingS learn a language while your there. I have found it very useful to take along a transalation in the language I want to learn and then work between the 2 whenever a scripture is mentioned. You will look very spiritual (throw them off the scent) and more importantly you'll stay AWAKE
my mom just informed me that a 17 year old has been disfellowshipped at her hall.at least 7 others have been kicked out within the last 5 years.the publisher count is only 56 .why do they let the teens get baptized so young?
i was 14 and only got baptized because of pressure and the end was coming.if you weren't baptized you would be destroyed.. why don't they wait until everyone is at leat 21?
all these teens haven't come back and you won't ever see them unless they return.i haven't seen my cousin in over 2 years.no one went to his wedding,isn't invited to any family functions and is to be avoided at all costs.. the watchtower society should be ashamed that they act that way and the parents let them get away with it..
Lonecat my heart goes out to. I applaud you for your courage and resilience.
I wish that there was some way that the wts could be sued for the cruelty both mental and physical it heaps on children in the org. In the way that silentlambs are doing for those who've been sexually abused. May be its something we need to get together on. I would support such a thing.
has anyone on this board ever used john 5:23 when talking to jw's?.
unfortunately, one of my friends is currently in a "bible" study with the jw's (and has been since last year).
i asked my friend to ask the jw what john 5:23 means, so my friend did ask the jw who was conducting the "bible" study.
Here's what adam Clarke says
Verse 23 . That all men should honour the Son, Son is to be honoured, EVEN AS the Father is honoured, then the Son must be God, as receiving that worship which belongs to God alone. To worship any creature is idolatry: Christ is to be honoured even as the Father is honoured; therefore Christ is not a creature; and, if not a creature, consequently the Creator. See John 1:3.
Burton Coughman's commentary
Verse 23
That all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father.
No stronger statement of the deity of Christ appears in Scripture. How is God honored? By the soul's purest adoration and worship. That is the way Christ should be honored. These words are equivalent to Jesus' saying, "I am God and am entitled to all the honor belonging to the Father?"
John Calvin's commentary
23. That all men may honor the Son. This clause sufficiently confirms the suggestion which I threw out a little ago, that when it is said that God reigns in the person of Christ, this does not mean that he reposes in heaven, as indolent kings are wont to do, but because in Christ he manifests his power and shows himself to be present. For what else is the meaning of these words, that all men may honor the Son, but that the Father wishes to be acknowledged and worshipped in the Son? Our duty, therefore, is to seek God the Father in Christ, to behold his power in Christ, and to worship him in Christ. For, as immediately follows, he who honoureth not the Son deprives God of the honor which is due to him. All admit that we ought to worship God, and this sentiment, which is natural to us, is deeply rooted in our hearts, so that no man dares absolutely to refuse to God the honor which is due to him; yet the minds of men lose themselves in going out of the way to seek God. Hence so many pretended deities, hence so many perverse modes of worship. We shall never, therefore, find the true God but in Christ, nor shall we ever worship Him aright but by kissing the Son , as David tells us, ( Psalm 2:12 ;) for, as John elsewhere declares,
He who hath not the Son hath not the Father, (1 John 2:23.)
Apologise what such a lot of info but am fascinated by what other christians had to say and how they compare with the wts. Love the way Calvin puts it.
Berndette
http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien240.html.
i ran across this article on the net.
it is an older issue of penthouse, (83) and has an interview with the son of ron l. hubbard.
eerily similar. Can see why getting out of these types of cults is so difficult and is such a long process. Rape of the soul was how he put it
i don't believe in prayer now, but i could be wrong so would you give some good vibes for my grandson?
he is 16 and they discovered a big growth on his lymph node near his heart and will operate on him monday afternoon.
it could be cancer but i sure hope it isn't.
thinking of you and your grandson
Amen to mouthy's prayer.
time and again the refrain is heard that belief and science are mutually exclusive, that belief somehow corrupts good science, that belief is not empirical.
i'd like to throw another slant on that, if i may.. belief is an inherent part of the human psyche.
the desire to know more about our environment and how it all works is also an inherent part of our psyche.
Lt
I want to share something that really helped me when my chidlren were small, husband reaching out in the cong, and we were all behaving like maniacs because of the WTs. I discovered a gem of a book. It was called The heart of the Mind. A sort of NLP for dummies. It got me out of a really tight downward spiral. There is also a chapter at the end that describes how to engage one's subconscious to alleviate illness in onself. I never recommended it to anyone though because some considered it borderline demonic. But It definitely is not.
i stumbled across the following article written by a man i know personally.
i offer it for your introspection .
http://www.freechurch.org/issues/2006/novb06.htm.
me too
