Posts by NanaR

20

Has the WTS ever published a complete list of babylonian kings??

by cultswatter in

lets cut to the chase shall we.

i'm looking for the wts list of babylonian kings and the years they reigned.

evidently the wts discredits any historical list of babylonian kings.

NanaR

Cultswatter:

When I was in high school in the late 60s and studying World History, I remember excitedly picking up the Babylon the Great book and comparing its chart of world events with information in my high school history book. I was very puzzled to find that they didn't match.

It took me another 30 years or so to start asking more questions. I'm a slow learner.

Anyway, the Babylon book is not on the WT CD, but go here if you would like to take a look (thanks Atlantis!!):

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/133727/1.ashx

You might want to download the other book too, as it is not on the CD either.

Ruth

89

Is WTS chronology flawed?

by cultswatter in

historians agree that jerusalem was invaded by babylon in 586/587bce.

the wts discredits most historical records and says that jerusalem was invaded in 607bce.

the wts start with 587 and add the 70 years that jerusalem lay desolate to obtain the 607 date.. if jerusalem was invaded in 587 then it lay desolate for only 50 years (587-537=50).

NanaR

Is the Pope Catholic?

Seriously...

Type: "Jerusalem 607" in your search bar and you will get lots of links -- some by JW apologists but most showing that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 BC.

There are a lot of good threads about the subject here too, but the search feature here is not working so I can't come up with any of them at the moment. I'm sure somebody else will come through though :-)

Ruth

37

How much JW doctrine is in harmony with the Bible?

by OnTheWayOut in

some have stated that the jw's go too far with their doctrine, but that much of the basic.

beliefs of the religion are correct.

i don't want to debate whether the bible is correct.. i just want opinions on how much of the jw doctrine agrees with the actual teachings of .

NanaR

Examples- Do they appear to be scripturally correct on any of these:
1) only the Father is truly God
2) no immortal soul
3) no hellfire
4) restoration of God's original purpose for earth
5) Eternal life for the faithful

You asked for opinions, so I'll give mine. Not to inspire debate (I see the direction of this thread), but simply as a statement.

On point 1, Only the Father is truly God

I do not believe that to be correct scripturally, as Jesus is called both "Mighty God" and "Alpha and Omega". He is also given "the name that is above every other name". And no I am not looking up the citations, but I believe the Bible clearly supports the Divinity of Jesus so the Witnesses are wrong when they say Jesus is NOT God.

On point 2, No immortal soul

I do not believe that the scriptures rule out the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. "Do not fear those who can kill the body BUT CANNOT KILL THE SOUL". I choked every time I had to explain that away in field service. That and all the scriptural references to the spirit leaving the body and returning to God. Do I know WHAT the soul is exactly? No. So I'm not going to say it is MORTAL when I can't define what it is. JW theology regarding the soul reduces man to a higher animal rather than a creation in the image of God. "Let US make man in OUR IMAGE" --- oh yeah, that goes to point 1 as well.

Jesus debated the resurrection doctrine with the Saducees who did not believe in the resurrection. But he did not debate with the Pharisees about their view of the afterlife. Sometime, read what the Pharisees believed about the afterlife. You might be surprised (it's not what the Tower would have you believe.)

On point 3, no hellfire

I do not believe in a PLACE of literal fire. But then Pope John Paul II defined Hell as being eternally cut off from God. I believe that scriptural references to fire are symbolic of destruction. So maybe the Witnesses have this somewhat right.

On point 4, restoration of God's original purpose for the earth

I don't believe that God purposed for man to live forever on earth and then had to take a detour to give Satan dominion. I believe God knew that man needed to "grow up" (just as we who are parents know that our children have to grow up and that they will make mistakes while doing it). I believe it has always been God's purpose to support and sustain mankind during this earthly "growing up" phase of his/her existence so that in God's time man will be able to be a "new creation" living in God's presence. Revelation says that this will occur in a "new heavens and new earth".

On point 5, eternal life for the faithful

I don't agree that there are two classes of faithful people. I believe in eternal life in heaven for ALL faithful people. So they have the "eternal" part right but they are confused about the destination of the faithful.

The other point, which you don't mention, where I feel the Witnesses "have it right" is that both faith and works are required for salvation. "Faith without works is dead" but salvation is not BY works. Salvation is by Grace and Grace has as its fruitage the works of faith.

Just my opinion,

Ruth

110

How many remember the 1969 8 day convention?

by seek2find in

anybody remember the 8 day 1969 international convention.

i was at the braves stadium in atlanta all 8 days with a sunburn and then wet clothes after the rain storms.

if you were there (not necessarily in atlanta) do you remember anything about it?

NanaR

Hey Ruth, That talk that Franz gave. Was that the one that just about the time it was over with a Thunderstorm was brewing and just before he released the book there was a big bolt of lightning and then it started pouring rain? Or am I thinking about another year. I went to Atlanta more than once. seek2find

seek2find, I remember a thunderstorm and having to flee inside the stadium while lightning flashed, but I don't think it was during this particular talk (there was probably more than one release at this assembly, but I don't remember what the other or others might have been). Franz's talk releasing the "Then is Finished" book was in the afternoon. It was about 100 degrees outside. I heard the talk through the sound system as I washed pots and pans, then ran into the stadium to get the book after the talk. And while performing this wonderful menial labor (for nothing) I was wearing a dress with a too-big apron over it, pantyhose, and 1 inch heels. My parents wouldn't let me wear sandals and leave my legs bare. It's a wonder those pantyhose didn't melt right on my legs... Ah, the smell of dirty dishes and sweaty people... Some of those brothers in the kitchen were really HOT too *g* Ruth

110

How many remember the 1969 8 day convention?

by seek2find in

anybody remember the 8 day 1969 international convention.

i was at the braves stadium in atlanta all 8 days with a sunburn and then wet clothes after the rain storms.

if you were there (not necessarily in atlanta) do you remember anything about it?

NanaR

A blast from the past:

Here is the convention schedule and a related article from the 1969 Watchtower. Yes, the one in Atlanta was an 8 day assemby, but some were shorter. The program ran all day and all evening in any case.

The article is encouraging people who are studying to " Make it your first assembly". What were they thinking?

Imagine the cost of staying in a motel for 8 nights with a family!! I don't know how my poor parents did it -- but we NEVER missed a single assembly.

This is the info:

Watchtower, 1969, March 15 issue p. 189 "Why Not Make It Your First Assembly?"

WHATTOANTICIPATE

Perhaps you are wondering what actually takes place at one of these larger assemblies. Let’s take a look at the activities of one day as noted in a typical program. At nine o’clock in the morning the first brief session opens with song, followed by a fifteen-minute discussion of the Bible text for that day as set out in the YearbookofJehovah’sWitnesses. Then, after prayer for Jehovah’s blessing on the field ministry, many of those in attendance move out to share in the house-to-house visits, spreading the Kingdom message and distributing invitations to the assembly. Some who have never shared in this service go along as observers with experienced Witnesses. As time permits they may also see some of the historic sites and other places of interest in the vicinity of the convention city.

After the midday meal the conventioners again assemble. Some delightful, real-life experiences are recounted by Witnesses from various parts of the earth, and then follow the afternoon sessions. These may include short Bible lectures, interesting demonstrations having to do with the ministry of Jehovah’s witnesses, and perhaps a fascinating Bible drama enacted by Witnesses dressed in appropriate costume.

Next, there is an adjournment for some two hours, offering opportunity to go and enjoy a meal with other friendly delegates at the assembly’s well-organized cafeteria. Here there is time to chat and get acquainted with other Witnesses, young and old, from various parts of the country. Then the evening sessions continue until about 9 p.m. Throughout the entire day the program is marked by variety and a wealth of information that grips the attention of the audience. And every part of the program brings to view new slants on Bible information—things you may never have thought about before.HOWITCANBEDONE

Watchtower, 1969, January 15 issue p. 63:

InternationalConventionsPlannedFor1969

July6-13: Atlanta Stadium, Atlanta, Ga., U.S.A.; Cleveland Municipal Stadium, Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A. (tentative).July7-13: Yankee Stadium, New York, N.Y., U.S.A. (includes Spanish).July13-20: Empire Stadium, Vancouver, B.C., Canada; Fairgrounds Grandstand, Pomona, Calif., U.S.A. (Spanish).July14-20: Dodger Stadium, Los Angeles, Calif., U.S.A.July21-27: White Sox Park, Chicago, Ill., U.S.A. (includes Spanish); Municipal Stadium, Kansas City, Mo. (tentative).July29–Aug.3: Wembley Stadium, London, England.Aug.5-10: Colombes Stadium, Paris, France; Sports Park, Copenhagen, Denmark.Aug.10-17: Zeppelinwiese, Nuremberg, Germany; Palazzo dello Sport, Rome, Italy.Aug.13-17: Palazzo dei Congressi, Rome, Italy (Greek, Spanish).Oct.12-16: Changchoong Gymnasium, Seoul, Korea.Oct.14-19: Tokyo, Japan.Oct.18-21: Taipei, Taiwan; City Hall Theater, Hong Kong, China.Oct.22-26: Rizal Memorial Stadium, Manila, Philippine Republic.Oct.24-26: Port Moresby, Papua.Oct.26-31: Melbourne Showgrounds, Melbourne, Australia.Nov.4-9: Auckland Trotting Club, Auckland, New Zealand.Nov.9-12: Town Hall, Suva, Fiji; Papeete, Tahiti.Nov.11-16: Honolulu International Center (Arena), Honolulu, Hawaii.Dec.24-28: Mexico Arena, Mexico City, Mexico.

--------------------------

Ruth

110

How many remember the 1969 8 day convention?

by seek2find in

anybody remember the 8 day 1969 international convention.

i was at the braves stadium in atlanta all 8 days with a sunburn and then wet clothes after the rain storms.

if you were there (not necessarily in atlanta) do you remember anything about it?

NanaR

I was at NYC in 1958 also. I was 5 1/2. I remember a few things. The Hotel room where we stayed was so dirty that my mother wouldn't let me out of bed without my shoes on.

I drank my first bottle of coca cola sitting under a bridge with my Mom and sister and grandma. We were waiting for my Dad to get back from the convention rooming office so we could be directed to the flea-bag hotel where we stayed.

Ruth

110

How many remember the 1969 8 day convention?

by seek2find in

anybody remember the 8 day 1969 international convention.

i was at the braves stadium in atlanta all 8 days with a sunburn and then wet clothes after the rain storms.

if you were there (not necessarily in atlanta) do you remember anything about it?

NanaR

I was in Atlanta too!! I worked washing pots and pans under the kitchen tents for a big part of that assembly. Boy was that hot work!! I was doing that at the time F. Franz gave his talk and released "Then is Finished the Mystery of God".

I was 16 years old, getting ready to start my senior year of high school.

My Dad usually worked in First Aid at conventions (he was a Chiropractor). I seem to remember some bad things happening, such as people keeling over with sun stroke and a baby dying after falling off of its mother's lap from a high seat.

How in the world did we ever survive those things?

Ruth

24

1919 Appointment

by garybuss in

when jesus appointed the watch tower corporation as his only channel on earth in 1919, what did he appoint?

did he appoint the people?

they're all dead now.. did he appoint the printing equipment?

NanaR

Very good question!!

Ruth

143

Your View On BREASTFEEDING In Public

by minimus in

jw
friends

last night on the news a woman was told by a store manager that she could not in public breastfeed her child.

she and her husband were quite offended and complained to the company's main offices.

they are now looking into this situation.. what's your opinion?

NanaR

I breasfed all three of my children. I breasfed them when they were hungry, and in public if necessary. It is really very easy to nurse a baby without attracting attention and be modest while doing it. I have nursed my babies in movie theaters, malls, parks, outdoor concerts, etc.

The only place I wasn't able to nurse my children without feeling harassed was the Kingdom Hall. I had to go to the restroom and nurse my baby standing up -- don't imagine it was a very sanitary place to do it either. But none of my children would tolerate a bottle, so I did whatever I had to do.

The situation at assemblies was similar until after my second child was born. Then they started having those "mothers rooms" for us to go to.

A contented nursing baby is much better company than a crying hungry one!

Ruth

45

Update Regarding How The May 1 QFR Is "Playing" In The Congregations

by Justitia Themis in

i have been emailing with a sister in my congregation regarding the qfr.

i told her i wasn't discussing it with most jws, because i didn't want to hear any of their "new light" garbage.

i told her this isn't new light; this just means that what we paraded out in 1935 as "new light" was wrong.. she sheepishly (no pun intended) agreed.

NanaR

Thank you for this information. I haven't been brave enough to ask my sister about it, but she has backed down from demanding to know if I still "accept the organization" and is emailing me regularly about family things.

The "back down" on the 1935 annointed deadline coupled with the "generation" change seems to me to negate the entire argument for two classes as well as the idea that this "new light" (millions now living will never die -- NOT) came at the "proper time" since the 1935 folks were of the "generation" that would see the end (and they are rapidly becoming extinct).

It seems to me that, at least among the Witnesses who have been around long enough to remember the dogmatic proclamations of years past, there has to be at some point a realization that their house is built on sand -- and that it is about to fall down around their ears.

Ruth