Is there any "new light" contained in the new softcover edition of the Revelation book? Not having a copy of the older one, I can't compare. The date on the inside jacket still says 1988, but surely there have been revisions in thought since then?
truthsearcher
JoinedPosts by truthsearcher
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Revelation book study. A look at Watchtower changes to prophetic meanings
by jwfacts inwith the upcoming study of the old-new revelation book i thought it would be good to expand an article i had done on the watchtower's ability to understand bible prophecy.
it appears at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/revelation.htm i can not understand how anyone that knows of the number of changes the watchtower has made can believe jehovah's holy spirit directs the watchtower.
particularly interesting is the changes that have been made to the understanding of the 1260, 1290, 1335, 2300 and 2520 days that appears towards the end of this article.the current explanation of these are an embarrasment.
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XMAS AND XMAS TREES OF PAGAN ORIGIN? POSSIBLY NOT!
by badboy inoften xmas is associated with saturnalia by some people.. in fact saturnalia was celebrated 17 december to 23 december.. dies natalis natalis invicti was first celebrated on december 25 in about 270.. xmas trees are first mentioned in 1570.. no connection with paganism there..
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truthsearcher
I might try and share some Christmas information with the active JWs that I meet with to discuss the Bible.
What would the Jws think of this: the Christmas tree is considered a Christian symbol not a pagan symbol by society. Here was an article on AOL:
TORONTO (CP) - A Toronto judge has ordered the removal of a Christmas tree from the lobby of a provincial courthouse, sparking widespread anger among court staff. Justice Marion Cohen ordered the decorated tree removed Monday from the lobby of the Ontario Court of Justice to an out-of-the-way corridor on grounds it is a Christian symbol that alienates people of other creeds and traditions.
In a letter to staff Tuesday, she defended the order while acknowledging "that many people are upset with my decision."
"I am aware the Christmas tree has been placed in the front lobby at Christmas time for many years," Cohen wrote."I do not think it appropriate that when the clients of our court enter our courthouse, the first thing they see is a Christian symbol. The message to the many non-Christians, who attend our court and are confronted with this symbol, is that they are not part of this institution. It does not belong to them. They are different."
The tree, a small artificial plant decorated in lights, blue bunting and ornaments, has been relegated to a side corridor near administrative offices.
"A lot of people are ticked off," said one worker who didn’t want to be named.
"It’s been here for years," said another.
While staff were too shy to go on the record, public visitors had more than a few strong words about the judge’s decision.
"I think it’s pretty stupid," said April St. Amour. "A Christmas tree is a Canadian tradition."
"Whether people are Christian or not, they should leave it."
Brendan Crawley, spokesman for the Ministry of the Attorney General, said Cohen is a local judge in charge of the administration of that particular courthouse.
"There’s no overall court or ministry policy that addresses this situation," Crawley said. "Each courthouse has a certain amount of latitude to make local decisions on matters pertaining to local administration."
The Christmas tree is no stranger to battles of political correctness. While the Christmas tree still stands near Toronto city hall, bureaucrats created an uproar in 2002 when they tried to rename it a "holiday tree."
Last year, a spokesman for the governor general created a one-day firestorm by announcing that Michaelle Jean would light a "holiday tree" — an error quickly corrected the following day.
12-14-06 13:54 EST
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For Newbies: EXCELLENT Judicial meeting with LOTS of info!!
by Lady Liberty inthought i would bump to the top this excellent tape recording of a judicial meeting.
you will find the person "on trial" has bneen a elder himself.
once he realised things were not adding up he ended up disassociating himself along with his wife.
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truthsearcher
I have found it very encouraging to listen to other audio clips that are on the same website--some of them lead me from anger to tears to laughter and joy. I was especially moved by the Sanchez recording. If you have not listened to it, I highly recommend it as well. These are people that were implicated in the Bethel witch-hunt of the '80's that Ray Franz describes in Crisis of Conscience.Their gentleness shines through and it makes it so hard to believe that they would be treated so horribly.
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My new quandry-The KJV bible
by Junction-Guy ini guess this pales in comparison to other issues i have dealt with.
my quandry is this.
i love the kjv bible, and if ever there was an approved version from god, i feel this is it.
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truthsearcher
Hi guys: I'd like to add my 2 cents to this discussion. First of all, the Bible translations issue is a huge one, so it is hard to have a really good discussion, in just a few words.
I was brought up using the KJV, so it has a familiarity to it that I like, as well as a poetic flow. However, the old English can be tricky to navigate, and sometimes makes meanings obscure. I have been using the NKJV which has updated the language but maintains that familiar flow. I checked Psalms 82:18, and it doesn't have Jehovah but LORD instead. Some KJVers don't like the NKJV because it footnotes alternate manuscripts, but I actually like that--we know there are alternate manuscripts out there, so I find it helpful to know where the variations are.
It is wrong, wrong, wrong to teach that the KJV translators were inspired by the Holy Spirit, just as the original biblical authors were. It is wrong, wrong, wrong to teach that you must read the KJV only in order to receive true salvation. It is wrong, wrong, wrong to teach that the KJV can correct the original manuscripts. These are beliefs that can be held by the extremists in the KJV only camp, which makes it cult-like.
However, this doesn't necessarily make it a bad version in itself. It is based on Textus Receptus and there have been scholarly arguments put forth why this is a more reliable basis for translation than the Alexandrian texts.
As far as your discomfort with the name Jehovah, that is only natural, but perhaps time and the Lord will help this to fade.
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Did You Ever REALLY Love "Jehovah God"?
by minimus inlooking back, honestly, do you think you ever really loved jehovah??
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truthsearcher
This is a very interesting thread--thanks for starting it Minimus. I have had a thought: Knowing as we do that the Watchtower has twisted their teachings to make people conform to their cult, then their presentation of Jehovah must also be twisted. I am a Christian who has known and loved Jehovah for years, and I do not recognize the Jehovah that the WT presents. I guess what I am trying to say is: Is it right and fair to evaluate and reject Jehovah based on lies that were taught by the WT? Wouldn't it be better to take off the Witness glasses and re-examine Him?
They have demoted Jesus, who as the express image of His Father, gives us the full picture of Jehovah. If we want to really know Jehovah, we should examine Him through His Son. This presents a totally different picture of a loving father, who is just waiting for his children to return to him (think prodigal son story), who would go to any lengths to rescue them from bondage (think the sacrifice of Jesus). When I read my bible, it even shows me that it was Jehovah in human form that was tortured and killed for my personal sins (and there have been many!) Wow--that is an amazing thing to think about. I don't think the NWT is particularly helpful because of the distortions that it contains but there are other good versions available at the local Christian bookstore. There is alot more I could say on this but I'll end with this: I do believe that if we sincerely pray for him to reveal the truth to us as we read the scriptures, then he will help us to see that he is very different from the Jehovah of the WT.
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I've recently made the decision
by Polishedgloss inwhich i think you guys call a fader...so far i'm pretty much got away with it.
my close family are in the truth love them to bits and i seriously dont want to alienate them- my story is a positive one, they have accepted that i dont go to meetings anymore and although they arent pleased they accept my viewpoint.
i am not a bitter ex-witness, i enjoyed my time meeting people while i was a witness although a lot shunned me after and a few years before i went 'public'
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truthsearcher
Welcome to the board. I hope you will enjoy reading posts and maybe learning some things that you never knew before about the Witnesses. It is wonderful that your family has maintained their contact with you. You can understand how traumatic it would be for those whose family has abandoned them.
I was surprised to learn what JWs think about people outside the organization because we have known wonderful,wonderful people and friends over the years--and none of them were JWs! You are finding this out too.
If you are interested in finding out how the WT twists the Bible to fit their doctrines, there is lots of information available on line. You may learn a new way to think of the ressurection hope. Here is just one example: http://www.jwinfoline.com/page_phone_transcript_main.htm
Wishing you all the best,
TS
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Lost and looking for answers
by LynnTink inthis is my story.
i was born a jw and never knew anything else because my parents shelter from everything but for other reason.
from the time i can remember my dad beat my mom.
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truthsearcher
Hi Lynn: Welcome to the board and thank you for sharing your story. It is uniquely yours but is one of a number of stories of people who have been needlessly hurt by wickedness in the Organization.
Since you still love God, you might enjoy just reading the Bible without the WT spin on everything. It is a totally different book when you can read it plainly without confusing and conflicting explanations. Many have found different versions to be refreshing, since the NWT is full of deliberate distortions to support WT doctrine. (If you have a KIT, you can see these by reading the left side where the Greek text is translated.) The Salvation Army thrift shop in our area gives Bibles away for free and I have found several in excellent condition. I personally enjoy the New King James version--I find it easy to understand, but it still maintains a poetic feel and flow to the language. Other people prefer other versions but that is the one that I use regularly.
I wish you all the best in this journey that you are on.
TS
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Why did the WTS ever bother to release the KIT?
by AK - Jeff inin noting another post regarding a pdf version of the kingdom interlinear translation, i traversed the internet sites of several critics of this translation.
lots of interesting reading, true.
i wonder why the wts left the door to accusation so wide open?
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truthsearcher
This would explain why I have been loaned a copy of the KIT by a JW, and it is in near pristine shape. I have to refrain myself from getting out the highlighter and outlining the blatant mistranslations! (Although, maybe this would be a good idea.....hmmm.....) I think it has received more use from me than it ever had with a JW.
I would like to obtain my own copy for counter-cult work. I know it is available as a download but does anyone have a lead to a copy of the actual book?
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HAVE JWS RUINED YOUR LIFE??????
by chuckyy inim sitting here today thinking:.
"my daughter should have had open heart surgery years ago and she would have been too young to know anything about it.
instead, she is about to face it now....the surgeons were relectant to do it when we were jws and she was so young.
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truthsearcher
I would like to add a word of encouragement to those of you who gave up college for slavery to the WT.
At 41, to my great joy and delight, I graduated with a degree in music . I was able to combine some Internet courses with a local college program. As an adult among the young 'uns, my work ethic and marks were much stronger. I also was able to use my education right away in teaching and performing. There is much to be said for the advantages of adult maturity and drive. My professor said that in his experience, mature students were able to more than compensate for time lost. Also, as an adult, my interests had changed somewhat, and so I pursued music instead of finishing the degree in English that I had originally started at age 18.
BTW, I did this with 4 children still at home. They were very supportive (as was my spouse) and helped to keep things running while I was busy. I won't lie: it was a long haul, there were significant financial and time sacrifices to be made, but it was a good role model for the kids. We did our homework together and encouraged each other to study hard! There are scholarships and grants available to adult students, so this is something to look into if you are interested.
Our life experiences shape who we are today. If we let them poison us, we will fester and ooze bitterness, disappointment and hatred. The ability to forgive is a cleansing process that frees us from the chains of the past, but I don't think this comes "naturally". I personally have found this freedom through a relationship with Jesus Christ--having been forgiven, I am able to forgive.
TS
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Any help with 8 year old still in?
by megsmomma ini am very sad that i am in this situation.
it is pretty much my own fault that i have this situation...but i didn't know at the time what all the consequenses would entail.
(i got real ddepressed and left my jw husband and da'd myself after i had a baby with him) my daughter is a happy well adjusted kid with a new jw mom and an elder dad.
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truthsearcher
Here's an idea: How about sneaking in some presents that help develop logic skills: books, games, computer games--anything that will encourage that little brain to grow in discernment! My kids love Sudoku and I have ordered some Thinking Skills workbooks for them. They liked logic puzzles when they were older.