I just want to interrupt the re-education of Perry to express my appreciation for JaguarBass post on this thread. Well done. I am not where you are at, and I don't know if I will ever reach your conclusions, but I though you cogently expressed a longing we all have that no one here, theist or atheist, would be wise to ignore.
AllTimeJeff
JoinedPosts by AllTimeJeff
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322
God and Suffering
by AK - Jeff ina few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.
the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.
today i came across this:.
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5
In Life or in Death, Your Legacy is Love
by AllTimeJeff inwhat would happen to those who know and love you if you died?.
would their grief be so immense that they couldn't go on?
would they want you back so much that they simply stopped living?.
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AllTimeJeff
What would happen to those who know and love you if you died?
Would their grief be so immense that they couldn't go on? Would they want you back so much that they simply stopped living?
Now, what would you want for them?
To remember all the good times? The bad times? Would you want friends and family who ticked you off to suffer? Would you want those who loved you the most never to love anyone else and stop their lives because you weren't around?
I realize that at first, these are very morbid thoughts. Having had to face death more then once, esp recently, I have had the opportunity to revisit these questions, and to apply, ironically enough, the golden rule.
Do unto others....
I am afraid, that in spite of my best, egotistical efforts, I am not immortal. Good thing, there are probably better candidates. I will die at some point, and so will anyone reading this.
That isn't a sad thing, or, to put it better, it doesn't have to be.
I write this because there really isn't a manual on how to handle the death of those we love, or to view the suffering of survivors of those who have passed. We all struggle to find a meaning, a search for purpose when death visits.
I find it fascinating personally to read of those who use the death of a loved one as the impetus that turned their life around. I find it equally fascinating and sad (tragic really) to read of those who couldn't go on.
So this week, I asked myself a question: What would I want everyone who ever cared for me to do in case I passed away. To never be happy again? To be pissed? Mad? Happy?
Would I want my life (or even death) to make a difference for them for good? Absolutely.
And then, my thoughts turn to those who suffer through horrific natural disasters, like the Indonesian tsunami, the Haitian earthquake, etc. For sure, the survivors need care and comfort. But would those who unexpectedly passed want the world to stop for them?
Or would they rather that those who survived lived, really lived, and moved on happy, and better off for knowing me?
Thats the whole point. This is an opinion piece of course, but I wouldn't want people to be so swallowed up in grief that they couldn't go on. I would want my life and death to be something that those who knew me could benefit from, it at all possible.
(no, I am not talking about life insurance)
You will notice there is no mention of god, or a higher power in this, because I choose to focus only on what I can control. Should god really exist, he is free to do the same. My point is really rather simple, to know that we are mortal means that we help nurture future life, even for those times when we will inevitably not be around.
It helps to deal with suffering and natural disasters better. It helps us to focus on what we can do while we are alive. It helps us to appreciate and value life, existence, and the people around us. It moves us to examine how we can help people now, practically, and to do the most important thing a human can do to another.
Love. Love and forgive. And never fail to let those around you know how you feel. Oh, don't just say it, do something, anything, that will show it.
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Understanding the Witness trained mind! Theocratic schooled =always defending without thinking!
by Witness 007 intheocratic mid-week meeting was just a session of "defence tactics" training witnesses to automatically think of a defensive answer without even pondering the other persons point of view.
witnesses send everything you throw at them in the "trash basket" of their brain...only thinking of thier next defensive response.
this is typical cult thinking.
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AllTimeJeff
Good thought.
I just want to isolate one item, because I really feel it is frequently overlooked.
"without thinking"
Obviously, if we abdicate our responsibility to do our own thinking, we are responsible for that. But so often, I read of former JW's who don't seem to understand why their family shuns them. Why JW's are so happy to accept this decades version of what the generation of MT 24 is? How JW's can't see the contradiction between their door to door apostate making work, while never listening to opposers of JW's who are themselves deemed apostates?
I am not using that as an excuse. However, it is good to keep in mind that most JW's are NOT evil. They are in a cult.
If those who don't want to acknowledge that JW's are a cult, I give you this simple piece of logic, introduced here in this thead. JW's to one degree or another, are indctrinated to act and behave automatically. They are trained to react, never to think or reason.
Thats cold comfort I realize when you are the victim of the cult and the people, but, truth is truth. Understanding why JW's act (generally) from the correct perspective can help in many ways.
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Who is the Man of Lawlessness
by wannabe indid not jesus serve warning, that prior to his coming there would be some, teaching so close to the truth that they would, if it were possible, mislead even the chosen ones?.
24 "for there shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall give great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
" {matthew 24:24 dt}.
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AllTimeJeff
Wannabe (as in Wannabe prophet)
Hi there. Whenever someone would like to do an exegestical smackdown of JW dogma, count me in as an interested observer. The fact that you on a few threads write very indepth essays just to prove that JW's are not correct is cool with me.
It's not like its that hard, lets be honest.
For example, some people who aren't caught in a superstitious mindset would probably read the man of lawlessness passage and think literally, "Hey, I wonder if that means a lawless man!"
But I digress. Paul (supposedly) wrote this close to 2000 years ago if you believe that. To date, no man of lawlessness has appeared matching the description. Which leaves that scripture open to interpretation. Your interpretation is no different then JW's. Would you like to know how? Because as your responses bear out, you condemn people with the same ease that the Governing Body does.
So ultimately, your conclusion for whatever exegesis you delve into is that Jesus will destroy people who don't believe in him? Ok. Count me out.
I am used to having people think I am dead. JW's, many fundamentalist Christian religions, Islam, etc, all have me as dead because I don't worship their god.
So get in line Wannabe. Maybe you condemners can make some small talk and figure out your next strategy to scare the weak minded with a 2000+ year old collection of scrolls into following your god.
Your desire to expose the GB as false is commendable. The fact that you would replace their dogma with a competing dogma designed to frighten, scare and condemn just like Jehovah's Witnesses do makes you no better then Jehovah's Witnesses in my opinion, and waters down whatever value your exegesis might have.
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92
To All Our Canadian Friends
by AllTimeJeff inwhen you are done watching the opening ceremonies, come in and say hi.. hey outlaw, they are doing the prarie tribute as i write this.
hope you like joni mitchell.... ;).
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AllTimeJeff
By old flame, do you mean a refinery? (seriously, I don't know... oh! duh, the old Calgary Olympic flames... double duh! I think I am getting tired, because I am introducing too many parenthetical thoughts in my post. Next I will start "quoting" again...)
("!")
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92
To All Our Canadian Friends
by AllTimeJeff inwhen you are done watching the opening ceremonies, come in and say hi.. hey outlaw, they are doing the prarie tribute as i write this.
hope you like joni mitchell.... ;).
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AllTimeJeff
Simon, you can always wear two hats, esp when curling comes on...
Btw, I love watching curling... I have no idea why....
I just want Canada to win hockey. The whole damn place might implode if they don't.....
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92
To All Our Canadian Friends
by AllTimeJeff inwhen you are done watching the opening ceremonies, come in and say hi.. hey outlaw, they are doing the prarie tribute as i write this.
hope you like joni mitchell.... ;).
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AllTimeJeff
Hey, thats a 10 year old Gilead grad elder to you. (doesn't sound too hot does it?)
Have a plantain, its the best I can do. I don't photograph well with regular bananas.
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92
To All Our Canadian Friends
by AllTimeJeff inwhen you are done watching the opening ceremonies, come in and say hi.. hey outlaw, they are doing the prarie tribute as i write this.
hope you like joni mitchell.... ;).
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AllTimeJeff
Ok, you are back in my good graces Shamus...
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92
To All Our Canadian Friends
by AllTimeJeff inwhen you are done watching the opening ceremonies, come in and say hi.. hey outlaw, they are doing the prarie tribute as i write this.
hope you like joni mitchell.... ;).
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AllTimeJeff
Poopsie, I know... very sad.....
Shamus, hockey is overrated??? Do you EVER want a banana from me again?? Where's my tranq gun??!!
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92
To All Our Canadian Friends
by AllTimeJeff inwhen you are done watching the opening ceremonies, come in and say hi.. hey outlaw, they are doing the prarie tribute as i write this.
hope you like joni mitchell.... ;).
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AllTimeJeff
Eh, Mario is better then Gretzky anyway... And he saved hockey in Pittsburgh. Gretzky saved hockey in Ari... never mind...
