Posts by AllTimeJeff

49

How did you find the strength to leave?

by SAHARA in

to all of you exjws, i'm sure you've been asked this question one way or the other many times and i'm sure the answer is different for many of you, i'd like to know directly from you never having a chance to hear or read many exjw's answers to this.

knowing that you would be cut off from your family and friends and other consequences for your decision to leave, how did you ever get the strength to do it?

i mean really, i find it fascinating to know that there are so many of you who were at one time very devout, if not at the very least loyal to one of the most successful mind-contol organizations ever who believed all if not most of what the society taught and still you found the courage to risk everything once you accepted that it isn't what it claims to be.

AllTimeJeff

I don't think it was an act of courage per se, but a decision made courageously.

Yes, I did cross the Rubicon in my mind. I knew that my friends would no longer be able to talk to me. I weighed that heavily, knowing how I would be talked about.... All the games and mind traps the GB puts in your head.

But I adopted a simple mantra for me, and it has worked out rather well. It is better to suffer in honesty then to wallow in dishonesty.

I have frequently commented here that there is no easy, dignified way to leave the cult. It is messy, stinky, sort of like the prison escape in Shawshank Redemption.

I saw that well after my JW exit, but of course, the most famous line from that movie resonates to any JW at the crossroads as to whether to leave or not.

"You can get busy living, or get busy dying."

For JW's considering leaving, here is a better quote to consider, and its damn realistic too (from Shawshank)

"Andy Dufresne (insert your name here) - who crawled through a river of shit and came out clean on the other side."

20

PROVE these scriptures unrelated - also, EXPERIMENT: do you see a message here??

by EndofMysteries in

whether you believe in the bible or not, these are not completely separate books with nothing related.. this is the tip of the iceberg, but i wanted to demonstrate why i believe there is a deep hidden message in the bible, and that its books are linked.. does the bible itself reveal who the king of the north is?

(the whole world is trying to 'guess' and 'interpret' and treat all prophecies as individual).

(warning: this could set off a chain reaction and your searching the entire bible linking and getting better understanding of many prophecies ;) ).

AllTimeJeff

EoM, your words speak for themselves.

64

Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

by AllTimeJeff in

knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

AllTimeJeff

Knowing that passions run deep on this matter, I have what I believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of HOW to read the bible.

Terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated. These facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible IS the word of god.

This is not what I wish to discuss... Rather....

Jehovah's Witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures. No one JW outside of the Governing Body is allowed to do this.

But why is it necesarry?

Because according to the GB, Satan, though not as powerful as Jehovah, is powerful enough to hide and obscure the meanings of God's own inspired word.

Thats the basic JW view in a nutshell.

For many other Christian religions and views, it all comes down to semantics, tradition, and interpretation. On those "testy" scriptures that often cause arguements, both sides will often say that Jesus and Paul talked of not twisting either scripture or its meaning....

Which leads me to ask, isn't it possible to "twist" the meaning of a scripture if one is determined to NOT read a scripture literally?

Isn't reading the bible literally the only way to NOT twist scripture?

Why can't individuals read the bible like any other book and draw their own conclusions, whether their conclusions are from a literal view, or, if they seek to attach symbolic meaning to passages. (not unheard of, as other works of literature frequently inspire the same kind of symbolic introspection.)

In short, my opinion is that the only remedy to the "twisted scripture" problem is to simply take each book, with each verse, and take it literally. This puts it in context, and gives less control to superstitious attempts at transforming seemingly harmless passages into something that seems as relevent as CNN.

Discuss.....

20

PROVE these scriptures unrelated - also, EXPERIMENT: do you see a message here??

by EndofMysteries in

whether you believe in the bible or not, these are not completely separate books with nothing related.. this is the tip of the iceberg, but i wanted to demonstrate why i believe there is a deep hidden message in the bible, and that its books are linked.. does the bible itself reveal who the king of the north is?

(the whole world is trying to 'guess' and 'interpret' and treat all prophecies as individual).

(warning: this could set off a chain reaction and your searching the entire bible linking and getting better understanding of many prophecies ;) ).

AllTimeJeff

Faith, hope and love, and the greatest is love. That is a great passage.

Twisting scriptures is something that both Jesus and Paul warned about. It is easy to do in the name of fullfilling some kind of "quest".

20

PROVE these scriptures unrelated - also, EXPERIMENT: do you see a message here??

by EndofMysteries in

whether you believe in the bible or not, these are not completely separate books with nothing related.. this is the tip of the iceberg, but i wanted to demonstrate why i believe there is a deep hidden message in the bible, and that its books are linked.. does the bible itself reveal who the king of the north is?

(the whole world is trying to 'guess' and 'interpret' and treat all prophecies as individual).

(warning: this could set off a chain reaction and your searching the entire bible linking and getting better understanding of many prophecies ;) ).

AllTimeJeff

What if a person prays to god, gets close to her, and doesn't need all the dogmatic maze craze that you suggest?

I mean, is it necesarry to do it your way? So many others find comfort in faith hope and love, with the greatest of those being love.

5

Jehovah's people, Egypt, his sword, Assyria, and his inheritance, Israel

by EndofMysteries in

this scripture alone may not raise a flag in ones mind, combined with many other things i've been noticing, it surely does.

what are your thoughts on what this means?.

isaiah 19:24 - in that day israel will come to be the third with egypt and with assyria, namely, a blessing in the midst of the earth, 25 because jehovah of armies will have blessed it, saying: blessed be my people, egypt, and the work of my hands, assyria, and my inheritance, israel.

AllTimeJeff

I see Israel, Egypt, and Assyria, three nations that no longer are in existence as they were constituted when the bible was written. Hope that helps.

20

PROVE these scriptures unrelated - also, EXPERIMENT: do you see a message here??

by EndofMysteries in

whether you believe in the bible or not, these are not completely separate books with nothing related.. this is the tip of the iceberg, but i wanted to demonstrate why i believe there is a deep hidden message in the bible, and that its books are linked.. does the bible itself reveal who the king of the north is?

(the whole world is trying to 'guess' and 'interpret' and treat all prophecies as individual).

(warning: this could set off a chain reaction and your searching the entire bible linking and getting better understanding of many prophecies ;) ).

AllTimeJeff

PROVE they are related.

I mean, if you read "Romeo and Juliet" and then Google "Shakespeare", you will come up with similar references. Are they related in some cosmic fashion?

So, a local Jewish tribe keeps up written traditions for hundreds and thousands of years, with some common references. And this proves... what?

Again, your arguements lack compelling arguements. These are mere assumptions that you hope to be accepted so YOU don't have to prove anything. Big difference.

31

Evidently . . .

by Mad Sweeney in

this has been a wt buzzword for a long time but has come up in several recent discussions here.

so, i just had to look it up on the wt library cd-rom.. the word "evidently" appears 1,439 times in the insight books alone.

that number is staggering considering that the two-volume set is supposed to be comprised of encyclopedic facts.

AllTimeJeff

If one were to read the bible, it is apparant that the evidence evidently points to Christs brothers in modern times fullfilling bible prophecy. It is clear that a careful reading of the scriptures point to this. Are we not glad that the clear evidence apparantly points to the evident demonstration of realities not yet beheld. Evidently, this is what Revelation is all about....

(how much Charmin is needed to clean up THAT mess??)

37

WT March 15, 2010 - Page 27

by St George of England in

this article to be studied in two weeks time, in paragraph 13, footnote says: "jesus is the mediator of that covenant, not a participant.

as the mediator, he evidently did not partake of the emblems.".

(note use of evidently again!).

AllTimeJeff

Idiots. Their favorite word is evidently™. It should be followed with a *footnote that says

"Whenever, we, the all knowing Governing Body, uses the word "evidently", it is because we really don't know, but it fits our already way out their dogma, and rather then make the mistake of explaining it, we will hope that most everyone just nods their heads and accepts it, because it is so "evident". Good luck to all you fools who just take it at face value."

51

How many Elders does it take to change a light bulb?

by karter in

jw
friends

??????????????

?.

AllTimeJeff

The elders will wait for the CO visit to blame it one a couple of their number. A couple of ministerial servants who are reaching out will blame these elders two. No one will notice the color of their noses.

When the CO visits, he will ask the pioneer sisters how long the lightbulb will be out. The PO's wife will get with the CO's wife and complain about the lightbulb and the two elders who are responsible for this condition.

The CO will bring this up at the Servant/Elders meeting Friday. The two hot shot ministerial servants will offer their coached replies in front of the elders, looking more and more like they will be appointed. After being dismissed, the CO will pull out 1 WT bound volume, 2 letters to the elders and the flock book, and read everything ver batim. Though none of it applies, at the end of it, because the CO says it applies, it will. It will all go in a supplementary letter to the Service Dept, nicely worded, which will "recommend" that the two elders no longer qualify for allowing the light bulb to get burnt out.

Once this report comes back, two elders will be deleted, two more appointed, and the light bulb will be changed by 2 elders sons, both in their late teens, who will be "reaching out" and appointed at the next CO visit because they don't have enough MS's now.

Moral of the story. Kiss a lot of ass.