AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

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  95

  Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

  because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

  awesome!

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  AllTimeJeff

  Hi tec.

  I am sure there are more then 2 groups and trains of thought. I simplified it to illustrate the difficulty that the argument itself brings.

  I for one just wanted to say in my own way "Trinity arguments suck!"

  ;)
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  131

  ATJeff Answers Letters from JW Readers

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i didn't want to hijack billy x's attempt at hijacking another thread directed to our apostate terrorist, reinna.

  this is a parady that only ex jw's could possibly appreciate.

  whether you appreciate my macabre sense of humor is entirely another matter.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Dearest Brothers,

  What are your views on buying a Camaro? I'm going through a mid-life crisis right now, and want one.

  Thank you for your help.

  Oh, and one more question: Do you guys like ever get laid? I mean really, I think you should just go freaking nuts on your wife / hand / watever... ;D

  Dear monkey lipped chapped ass,

  We have retired real Questions from Readers because they were becoming very uncomfortable, and we like to save our special Governing Body lube for.... special occasions, like when our bodies need governing....

  A Camaro? According to Revelations 22:1, it is prophesied that only that black 1977 model featured in Smokey and the Bandit shall cause you to inherit the kingdom. Also, there is a chimp in that movie I think you would like.

  As for us getting laid? Hell yeah! We are the bride of Christ bitches!

  Your brothers,

  The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (aka, the bitchin bride of Christ)
• 
  19

  WT message about Apostates

  by mankkeli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  because of listening to the devil and not rejecting his lies, the first human pair apostatized.

  so, then, should we listen to apostates, read their literature, or examine their web sites on the internet?

  if we love god and the truth, we will not do so.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Hi jam.

  My post was directed at the first post and not your points, which I agree with.

  There is always another side to leaving. I didnt have to deal with it, but I reallize many do, and that is family and loved ones inside. It isn't easy. I wish you the best.

  My post was in the abstract, and obviously didn't address the real human toll that being an "apostate" brings where JW's are concerned.
• 
  95

  Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

  because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

  awesome!

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• 

  AllTimeJeff

  This isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my JW days. Because I KNOW I have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity....

  There are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.

  People of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.

  So the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real. Awesome! (I think that Congress should explain the national debt in similar terms...)

  People of math will always point out that 1+1+1= 3, and that you can't be seperate but equal, and honestly, lay off of the whacky weed.....

  That's it! Good night.

  Well, that isn't all.... :-p

  My point is this. Arguments on the trinity are very much like trying to wage war between two countries where both countries insist on having their armies assemble the front lines on the beach of their home land. The two warring parties don't even see or know each other......

  It is also known as a cold war.

  It seems silly to me, but whatever.....

  Ok, for real, good night! ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
• 
  54

  Stop making the BINARY error of Jehovah's Witness theology

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  true or false.. black or white.. life or death.. .

  the above are binary.

  this or that.. computing is based on binary choices.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Hi Billen76.

  Interesting response. I would argue that anyone who masters how to win an argument would then need only an argument to win.

  JW's could teach whatever they want, with pre printed questions and pre printed answers. They could teach that the sky will be purple in the new system if the word for "purple" could be mangled from the original greek in Revelation.

  In business, I have learned that people who have talent, who are good, will be a general success in whatever they do.

  JW's have evolved into professional teachers of nonsense. That nonsense could be ________________ (fill in the blank)

  I think it more educational to pay attention to the methods instead of the teachings, because frankly, JW's aren't the only ones who behave as Terry describes. They are just the group we all know best that behaves in this manner.

  JW's, the ultimate religious ponzi scheme. Better to recognize the religious ponzi scheme so as not to be fooled in the future imo.
• 
  19

  WT message about Apostates

  by mankkeli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  because of listening to the devil and not rejecting his lies, the first human pair apostatized.

  so, then, should we listen to apostates, read their literature, or examine their web sites on the internet?

  if we love god and the truth, we will not do so.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Your question is a fair one.

  It is absolutely fair to point out that anyone who disagrees, or even has evidence that points out that JW's have been wrong, or more to the point, have never been right, is from the devil.

  This is a TOTALLY fair thing to ask.

  To answer your question directly then: No

  I am not from the devil. Most people who leave JW's are not either.

  Here is a great little definition, followed by a very fair question in response:

  a·pos·tate

      [ uh - pos -teyt , -tit ] Show IPA noun 1. a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc.

  Isn't it ironic to any JW that the primary work that the Governing Body assigns them to do is to make apostates out of people of all nations?

  I mean, you can't be baptized a JW unless you write a letter of resignation to any church or religion you may have been a part of.

  JW's as such are a religion of apostates, people who have forsaken their former religion.

  Can a former JW be blamed for investigating the JW faith in a way that JW's want Catholics to look at their faith with a critical eye?

  Whatever......
• 
  54

  Stop making the BINARY error of Jehovah's Witness theology

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  true or false.. black or white.. life or death.. .

  the above are binary.

  this or that.. computing is based on binary choices.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Not wishing to interject myself in an ongoing discussion on the differences between obstinence and certainty (sort of like arguing between being dead or being no longer in existence.....)

  Terry's excellent essay is a very revealing look at the theology JW's offer.

  The mechanism is less romantic, but no less telling.

  Binary is a preferred language for programmers. There are other's out there. Binary is convenient and easy. JW's use their own version of binary that Terry so eloquently points out for their own dubious purposes.

  As Terry's essay points out, JW's (and other religions as well) seek to serve their cause by offering a canned "either/or" scenario that ultimately points the less wary towards the groups objectives.

  What has fascinated me since leaving JW's (and why I can't write much about JW's lately) is how simple the whole thing really is. The JW technique that is used to introduce their binary "either/or" teachings is almost boring, yet brilliant at the same time.

  How can you get people to accept only two choices when it is so apparant that many more alternatives exist? Simple. You control the conversation, and most importantly, you control the questions.

  When you control what questions are asked, you control the answers too

  JW's from the leadership on down through the rank and file are adamant about not free lancing when it comes to studying, that their "bible based" publications "save lives". The unwary at first get a magazine or book. They read the articles, see the pre printed control mechanism questions at the bottom of the page, and then read on, unaware of the purpose that these questions will in time serve.

  At first, it is the home bible study. "But what do JW's teach about going to heaven, who?" What is always the answer? "That answer is found in chapter 10, and we will get there, be patient. Build upon this knowledge first."

  A pattern develops at the very start. Inoculate the weird teachings that would be dismissed out of hand by giving out the candy first. "Live forever in paradise". "The ressurection!" "The love of Jehovah's people".

  Then, and only then, can you slowly give out the weird 144,000 go to heaven doctrine. The unsustainable teaching of the JW hiearchy (aka, listen to the governing body and the elders) How is this slipped in? Little by little, with each seemingly innocuous question, and the cute little answer, almost read out of the paragraph, but put in your own words of course.

  By the time you get use to this, it is time to go to the meetings, where the unwary is introduced to the wholesale level of question control, esp at the WT study.

  The answers are already there! Did you study? You didn't? Why not?

  How can you answer the questions correctly when you didn't read and memorize the supplied answers first???

  Either/or. Binary. The control mechanism for JW's is to control the questions. Because at that point, you control the answers.

  And then you really do have a bunch of sheep, nodding their heads, forgetting that the answers were never their own, and now, they have been tricked into not caring about where the answer comes from anymore.

  Sort of sick isn't it?
• 
  59

  What do you think about beauty pageants for kids?

  by journey-on in

  1. social
  2. family

  while channel surfing the other day, i caught something on tlc called toddlers and tiaras.

  i watched it!

  i was appalled, but at the same time the whole social implication of such a thing fascinated me.

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  AllTimeJeff

  It's a great way to show your kids how much you don't love them.
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  43

  R.I.P. *animal*... We'll miss you, buddy... :'(

  by VampireDCLXV in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have an announcement to make:.

  rick henry aka "animal" has just passed away.

  on july 26, 2011, rick suddenly fell ill (for no apparent reason at the time) and had to go to hospital.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Sad. I pay my respects. RIP.
• 
  6

  Truth about the "Truth"???

  by iamwhoiam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how and when did you first realize that the truth was not the "truth"?.

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  AllTimeJeff

  3 stages

  1) My brothers suicide in 1998, (drug addicted and mentally ill) where I was actually praised for shunning him in his hour of need.

  2) 9/11/01, where I saw what Armageddon would look like, and got to actually question whether or not this was bat shit that Jehovah would destroy everyone for not believing like "us" at the Kingdom Hall.

  3) Gilead, class 119, when we hit 2 Kings and to get the answers on the test right, we had to write that Elijah = Rutherford and Elisha = Knorr. That was the first time I said to myself, "This is crap, this isn't 'the truth'!"

  What happened to my brother opened my heart for the first time. 9/11 opened my mind and caused me to start really thinking about what I was raised to believe.