Posts by AllTimeJeff

19

Shredding the Organised to Accomplish Our Ministry book

by scotsman in

just read through the 2011 letters to usa boe and the 8 february one on disposing of old wt books/magazine struck me as apparently the co needs to authorise their disposal.

what really intrigued me was that the om book was required to have it's cover removed and the pages "shredded".. was everyone in the congegation asked to shred their personal copies too?.

AllTimeJeff

JWfacts, if I may ask please, is it your view that this is legit?

No offense, I trust certain posters here. My last official contact with this cult was 2006.

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

AllTimeJeff

To talesin's point....

I think there is a limit to what an atheist can honestly contribute.

Traditionally, most atheists point out very simply that 'god' isn't there.

I can't argue the point.

Faith is can be different from promoted/enforced doctrine however. It can should be individual, and personal.

To me, atheism's main debator is organized religion, and their efforts at explaining and promoting their 'god'.

After that, I see atheism as a philosophy of diminishing returns. I am not an atheist. I believe in personal spirituality, that gives personal meaning, and harms no one.

Atheism has little to no play in that field, (personal spirituality.) Atheism seems to frequently be on the side of such "spiritualists" in their common "foe", organized religion, and enforced worship of a god that is promoted by a leadership with their own personal agenda.

After all of this, to borrow a quote from Terry, 'Your mileage may vary.'

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

AllTimeJeff

Interesting premise.

As an opinion, my view is that an atheist would take what the most commonly used book/tool in his part of the world that is used to "verify" god as the tool to prove that particular god's non-existence.

In the case of the bible, many arguments, (very sound ones imo) have been presented to demonstrate that god doesn't exist as Jehovah, YHWH, Jesus, etc.

I believe these arguments have a place on a board that frequently has transient JW's and former JW's coming and going. These ones need to test out their newly formulated views, be they theist or atheist.

I don't think the source matters as much as the sound reasons given one way or another.

60

Society tells us to stop asking questions...

by cedars in

i was just glancing at the back of the october 15th watchtower and the questions from readers.

the question under discussion is "what should i do when i have a question about something i read in the bible or when i need advice about a personal problem?".

the article goes on to discuss how we should consult the watch tower publications index among the many 'tools' that have been provided by the faithful and discreet slave whenever we have a question that is not directly discussed in the publications.. one statement really caught my eye, because it's the first time i've ever seen the society actually dissuade people from writing in with questions.

AllTimeJeff

Don't mean to make undue fun of the GB, but this is bullshit. Here is what I think in parody form....

"What should I do when I have a question about something I read in the Bible or when I need advice about a personal problem?"

Dear Lonely, Desperate, Abandoned Dumba$$, (btw, thanks for donating to the Society's Worldwide Wurk)

It used to be that when we really believed we were annointed, going to heaven, part of the 144,000 (ah, the good ol days) that we would really try to answer most questions that appeared to be legitimate to us.

But this is Governing Body 2.1 (Barr and Jaracz are now in heaven. Or not, we don't give a shit.... Splane made us say that...). We have quickly realized that we simply need to do what Barr and Jaracz figured out.

We gotta die on the company dime.

We are very jealous of the Michigan contingent, Sydlik and Schroeder. Those damn bastards walked on water from the frikkin moment they got here. Schroeder could even lose bets to Freddie Franz in bad biblical Hebrew.....

We are especially jealous of Freddie Franz. How many people do you know who walked the earth, dropped out of college, then got to run a religion as a result for 70 freaking years, and then die at 100!!??

Yeah, we got screwed. We thought it would be cool to lie about being annointed. Now, we're f*cked! We got stuck with the bill. Time to leave Brooklyn and flee to the hills.

Do you think we're rambling? No, just some context here doofus. In the Oct 15 WT, we gave ourselves another trap door out when we said " Neither the branch office nor world headquarters is in a position to analyze and answer all such questions that have not been considered in our literature"

Oh SNAP!! That was a good one. Do you know what that means? It means that we can officially not give a shit. It means we don't have to supply you spiritual food because we are busy supplying you spiritual food!

We are AWESOME!! And you all will still follow us.

So remember, those WT bound volumes are great, except the parts that we change every 10 years. Like what constitutes a generation, or if oral sex is ok.

Don't worry though, we're Governing Body 2.1. All we want to do is die on the company dime.

Btw, we are actively recruiting for Governing Body 3.0. All you need to do is claim to be annointed and be our secretarial bitches for 20 years until we die and spend up what is left of the WTBTS fortune.

Then the youngin's can take over!

We love you all! Keep sending us your dimes!

Deep love (of your $$$)

The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, v2.1

131

ATJeff Answers Letters from JW Readers

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i didn't want to hijack billy x's attempt at hijacking another thread directed to our apostate terrorist, reinna.

this is a parady that only ex jw's could possibly appreciate.

whether you appreciate my macabre sense of humor is entirely another matter.

AllTimeJeff

Sorry, couldn't help this one... Its from the thread "Society tells us to stop asking questions"

"What should I do when I have a question about something I read in the Bible or when I need advice about a personal problem?"

Dear Lonely, Desperate, Abandoned Dumba$$, (btw, thanks for donating to the Society's Worldwide Wurk)

It used to be that when we really believed we were annointed, going to heaven, part of the 144,000 (ah, the good ol days) that we would really try to answer most questions that appeared to be legitimate to us.

But this is Governing Body 2.1 (Barr and Jaracz are now in heaven. Or not, we don't give a shit.... Splane made us say that...). We have quickly realized that we simply need to do what Barr and Jaracz figured out.

We gotta die on the company dime.

We are very jealous of the Michigan contingent, Sydlik and Schroeder. Those damn bastards walked on water from the frikkin moment they got here. Schroeder could even lose bets to Freddie Franz in bad biblical Hebrew.....

We are especially jealous of Freddie Franz. How many people do you know who walked the earth, dropped out of college, then got to run a religion as a result for 70 freaking years, and then die at 100!!??

Yeah, we got screwed. We thought it would be cool to lie about being annointed. Now, we're f*cked! We got stuck with the bill. Time to leave Brooklyn and flee to the hills.

Do you think we're rambling? No, just some context here doofus. In the Oct 15 WT, we gave ourselves another trap door out when we said " Neither the branch office nor world headquarters is in a position to analyze and answer all such questions that have not been considered in our literature"

Oh SNAP!! That was a good one. Do you know what that means? It means that we can officially not give a shit. It means we don't have to supply you spiritual food because we are busy supplying you spiritual food!

We are AWESOME!! And you all will still follow us.

So remember, those WT bound volumes are great, except the parts that we change every 10 years. Like what constitutes a generation, or if oral sex is ok.

Don't worry though, we're Governing Body 2.1. All we want to do is die on the company dime.

Btw, we are actively recruiting for Governing Body 3.0. All you need to do is claim to be annointed and be our secretarial bitches for 20 years until we die and spend up what is left of the WTBTS fortune.

Then the youngin's can take over!

We love you all! Keep sending us your dimes!

Deep love (of your $$$)

The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, v2.1

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

ATJ, you present a false dilemma for believers such as myself and many others on this board. Most of us don't take these doctrines as the end of what God is, but as a tiny, tiny, tiny, beginning of some sort of insight into what is ultimately ineffable for finite beings.

This is fine with me. It is one thing to explain your view of god, quite another to insist you understand the nature of god to such a degree that you would feel comfortable insisting on that view to others.

If that isn't your intention, that is fine. That is certainly my impression though.

But I must say, in regards to my personal views of what is the correct Trinity teaching, I have to cede the fact that upon reading the Bible, the Trinity does not seem to be its main teaching. Yeah, there are verses that speak to Jesus being God but in order to even attempt to 'prove' the Trinity, one has to cobble a bunch of verses together from disperate writings that may or may not have been intended to be cobbled together like that. The only time the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are mentioned together as being one was in 1 John 5:7-8 and only in a King James Bible for this text did not appear in older manuscripts. Of course, there is also Matthew 28:19 which is cited less often.

Hi garyneal. Thanks for your honesty. I have meant this and will repeat it again, I respect your right to view and interpret god as you choose, just as I respect Sulla and botchtowersociety's right to do so too.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

First of all, I want to apologize to Sulla on a couple of items.

Sulla is a he, as this thread shows. Also, Sulla clearly has a JW past.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/212771/1/Moms-baby-book

I genuinely didn't know how to refer to you Sulla. Sorry bout that. I didn't look you up, I wanted to just get it from your mouth is all.

I asked about you being a JW Sulla because of your statements about the intelligence of JW's and former JW's. Btw, I still think your generalizations are rather convenient for your own theological leanings and are not particularly fair. Obviously, we are both entitled to our opinions and have made them known in our give and takes.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

Hopefully this goes without saying, but it is one thing to have your theology/viewpoint bring you balance, peace, etc. It is quite another thing when your viewpoint causes you even mentally to have to go against others who differ in belief for very legitimate reasons. If that is the case then I have to question your theology, your world view, the whole enchilada.

If your theology/world view pits you against others in the world, then your world view is small and limiting. I know I won't change you if you feel Jesus is coming, whatever.

However, I believe God is bigger than the Trinity. WAY bigger.

Christians, I am here to tell you that the world is WAY BIGGER then the Gospels, Jesus Christ, the Trinity, whatever.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

I know that the Trinity is mis-represented by Jehovah's Witnesses.

It bears saying as well that Jehovah's Witnesses are also mis-represented.

How many times did I read as a JW that we celebrated Good Friday, occasionally Easter? I have read articles where JW's believe all sorts of things.

I am well aware that there are many ways to interpret and believe the Trinity. I do not believe that the Trinity is what JW's described it to be.

Being mis-represented is one issue, but it isn't the main issue.

If you garyneal, have an understanding of the Trinity that differs from Sulla (who knows if it is different or the same, as no one seems to be able to encapsulate their views in a few sentences so far) that's cool. In addition, if that particular theology balances you, believe me, that is wonderful.

While Sulla and I are probably boring everyone to tears right now (my apologies for what that's worth) it is very hard to say that a particular theology is relevant/superior when one isn't willing to share it.

For what this is worth, I have read up on a variety of information on the Trinity after I read one of leolaia's essays on the matter. While JW's definitively lie about the Trinity, that doesn't give the theology behind it a free pass either.

In addition, monotheism is rampant through the OT, and there are legitimate issues regarding accepting the OT as part of 'sacred scripture' and having a new doctrine co be introduced after the time of Jesus in the NT.

I have looked into the bible with an open mind as well and have obviously come to different conclusions.

38

New light emerging?

by breakfast of champions in

so, just recently ( i believe it was the september 1 wt) there was the thought that only the "incorrigibly wicked" will be destroyed at armageddon.

at the recent visit of the co, several times he brought up the idea that the "great crowd" will be far more people than just the 7m jws on earth today.

all my life i was raised thinking only jws would be the gc, and the other 99.9% of humanity would be fertilizer.

AllTimeJeff

If they try that, I will be right here waiting.....