AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

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  86

  More "Elders" Doubt They Are Appointed By The "Holy Spirit"!

  by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the study edition of the watchtower says the elders are appointed by jehovah's holy spirit.

  it's confounding the society does not realize that more and more elders, do not accept this claim.

  i have racked my brain, wondering how many brothers and sisters actually believe this, fall hook and sinker.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Uh yeah eggnog. That is accurate. That is what JW's teach.

  Doesn't make it correct of course. But at least we know you can read.

  Does anyone realize how much elders talk about the stuff they do in secret at the time of their appointment? Watching 'naughty' TV? Drinking too much? And do most elders confess this at the time? Hell no. They worked too hard to get into the club, and most know what happens to a flock member who has been black listed by the local body.

  This cult can claim whatever they want about being appointed by holy spirit, and you can quote bible scriptures and Watchtower articles all day long. What has always been lacking with this group from the time of CT Russell till now is simple evidence. Fullfilled prophecy? Nope. A real spiritual paradise of brotherhood? Only if you are a brother in good standing.

  Well, as always, I will point out that if a group of 7 million is going to stand out as different in the world population of over 7 billion, is it too much to ask that you be right, stay right (ie, stop changing your teachings every 20 years) and benefit the people in your flock in practical ways, instead of selling them on the idea that they are happy, but really, you aren't going to be happy till the future?

  That's some carrot. The idea that elders are there thanks to the mysterious holy spirit is another pillar of control for this cult, not for spiritual protection. The first thing that elders protect isn't the flock. It's always the Governing Body first, and then the flock if its convenient.
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  33

  Which came first for you? Watchtower illegitimacy, or a compelling alternative?

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

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  AllTimeJeff

  LIFE is a compelling alternative to JW's.

  Definitely the legitimacy was what I questioned. I lived through the dogma and its effect in my life.
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  100

  Latest Watchtower page 30... They have some nerve to put this!

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one thing that i have always noticed even when i was a jw is that the jw org has lots and lots and lots of rules for allsorts of stupid petty rules which make no difference.

  when you read the bible you see how they are clearly in the wrong here and are acting like the pharisees themselves, who imposed so much pressure on others to conform to the law.

  am i missing something here!?!?

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  AllTimeJeff

  Hey eggnog, do you have your time in for the month yet?

  The Governing Body most resembles the Pharisees that Jesus condemned. Rules that change, oral rules that can be given by higher ups, numerous nuances to prophecies and credences.

  I am guessing you haven't spent any time at Bethel, so i will cut you a break. You wouldn't be the first person to read fiction and not get it.
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  39

  Is it biblically ok to have sex with your daughter or niece?

  by Diest in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was hit by this topic after doing reaserch in the old testament.

  there are eleven different sexual relationships that are directly condemed in the old testament.

  strikingly your daugher and your niece are not listed.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Is it ok to question using the bible as a guide to living in the 21st century thanks to stories like this?

  I read the Old Testament for the first time when I was 10. The last time, when I was studying at Gilead. Let me tell you, in 2005, stories like this are gross, no matter which bible you use or what tradition you come from.
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  86

  Christian Atheists, why did you throw the baby out with the bath water?

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "i contend that we are both atheists.

  i just believe in one fewer god than you do.

  when you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why i dismiss yours.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I acknowledge that many believers in god are powerfully affected if they believe that they have had an experience or communication with "god".

  Sadly, such experiences cannot be verified, though the behavior of the believer may be altered.

  What can be verified are existential items such as love and purpose.

  What I think many theists do possess that they don't use is what you say Caliber: What a person can validatefor themselves.

  What they lack is the ability to draw the line between what they have proved to themselves and what they can prove to others.

  If a person chooses to believe, and allows that to affect them in many positive ways, they only need to stop there and allow others to find their own way.

  Unfortunately, it seems like many theists get a bad "Joan of Arc" syndrome, where they fight for "god" on her behalf. If you are going to fight for god, can we at least get a memo?

  As a former JW who went way way way up the company ladder, I can tell you that there are few things that will get a person so heady, so intoxicated, as to believe that what they do in life is from the one true god. It causes a person to not consider anything else, and to make unhealthy decisions. In short, it is a dangerous way to live life.

  Now, if a JW (for example) were allowed to decide to worship Jehovah, and even keep private beliefs about what will happen to non-believers, that is their right.

  Where it get's dangerous is the activities promoted, not the beliefs.

  Can one believe and not act on their world? Of course, and this is where it gets frustrating for theists, because the world as it is is VERY different from the "map" they have been given. (such as the bible or other sources of religious dogma)
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  86

  Christian Atheists, why did you throw the baby out with the bath water?

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "i contend that we are both atheists.

  i just believe in one fewer god than you do.

  when you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why i dismiss yours.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Isn't this thread a way to make a point to Christians that their view of religion and spirituality isn't the only one out there?
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  86

  Christian Atheists, why did you throw the baby out with the bath water?

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "i contend that we are both atheists.

  i just believe in one fewer god than you do.

  when you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why i dismiss yours.

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  AllTimeJeff

  From Caliber:

  So a basic definition of spirituality is the quality of one’s sensitivity to the things of the spirit. And what are these things of the spirit? These are those that cannot be directly perceived by our senses but whose effects can be deduced or inferred by our observations, like love, justice, peace, etc.

  So the basic meaning of spirituality is that it is a term which encompasses everything that we cannot see directly with our eyes, directly perceive by the other senses and know by our mere reason. That is spirituality in its basic meaning

  On first read, I have some issues with that definition of spirituality. I think first of all that it allows for one to continue to believe things that cannot be perceived.

  Perception is different from faith. I don't need Jesus to come down to the heavens to tell me that the tender emotions, esp love, is very good and healthy. I don't need Zeus or Buddha to help me to see that a purpose in life is valuable, healthy, and necessary.

  Faith is believing that love and purpose come from Jesus or Buddha, and that they caused these things as their specific religious traditions teach.

  Perception is the acknowledgment that love and purpose, while not tangible phyiscally, are realities of the human experience. Perception also teaches us that love and purpose do not need to be linked to religion or a god, that atheists and agnostics also enjoy these things without a religious truth behind it.

  To be sensitive is to be educated and aware. If one is unwilling to consider the evidence, it doesn't change the evidence. It only tells on the person unwilling to consider it.
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  86

  Christian Atheists, why did you throw the baby out with the bath water?

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "i contend that we are both atheists.

  i just believe in one fewer god than you do.

  when you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why i dismiss yours.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Personal spirituality (i.e. knowing who you are and discovering your purpose in life) is more important than figuring out the answer to a question that can't be proven.

  What does one get out of believing in God? Purpose in life, that their existence is not in vain.

  Does it ever occur to theists that atheists have that figured out already, and they didn't need god/religion to help them? That they did this on their own?

  This question is a math problem that excludes about 5 other continents.

  The real "baby" is your purpose in life. However you choose to fill that need (call it spiritual or whatever) is what you should do. The bathwater that should be thrown out is the entrenched positions that aren't willing to learn anything.

  "I have it figured out! I can stop learning! I can stop understanding other people!" If you ever wonder why the occasional loudmouth theist pisses me off, that last statement is it in a nutshell, the insistence that there is one right way for all people, one truth, one true god. And the only person not involved in the discussion? The one true god. Silence.

  Having said that, I don't find it particularly uplifting for two sides to argue about this. Why? Because while there is utility in working this out for yourself via debates (lord knows I did) I would be remiss not to point out that this is not an "either/or" scenario. But you would have to open up your eyes and be honest to acknowledge that. You would have to be open that your purpose in life, that your "spirituality" is not linked to either believing or not believing.
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  17

  Did the Watchtower just admit to MIND-CONTROL?

  by pharmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  consider some of the other twisted things used to mislead gods people today.

  on occasion opposers will question the various teachings that jehovahs people hold in common.

  often this becomes a debate about words, just as it was in the first century.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Don't worry, if they got called on it, an explanation will appear in the footnote of a Study WT saying that they didn't mean miind control, that it is something else, that you should follow the FD slave anyway, and that they were right then, they are right now, and obey or else.
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  34

  Need Advice About Letter to the IRS to Revoke the WTBTS' Tax Exempt Status

  by ABibleStudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  please review my letter to the irs commissioner to establish a process for revoking the tax exempt status of dangerous cults and write comments about how to improve it.. rough draft of letter.

  mr. douglas h. shulman .

  commissioner.

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  AllTimeJeff

  With all respect, the IRS is not going to take away JW's tax exempt status. The letter from one citizen who could potentially be framed as a disgruntled former member will do little to nothing.

  If the letter makes you feel better, and you want to be on the record though, that is what being a citizen is all about! Just be realistic about the outcome.