The study edition of the Watchtower says the elders are appointed by Jehovah's Holy Spirit. It's confounding the Society does not realize that more and more elders, do not accept this claim. I have racked my brain, wondering how many brothers and sisters actually believe this, fall hook and sinker. I can count twenty elders off hand, who do not agree with the Watchtower's claim on this matter. The Holy Spirit, does not guide the BOE, or we would not have appointed a pedophile, chronic fornicator, a thief,drunkard, pathological liars and other cowards... Who still believes elders are picked by Jehovah, honestly I don't know who is that stupid! How did this dogma gain traction in the Organization? I am like Fox Moulder X-Files "Trust No One!" but "The Truth Is Out There!"
More "Elders" Doubt They Are Appointed By The "Holy Spirit"!
by Bubblegum Apotheosis 86 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Chariklo
Unfortunately the elders of my experience, admittedly very limited, see themselves as truly God's gift to all. They can do no wrong. Outwardly nice, fairly but not very intelligent men who become self-satisfied bullies.
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wha happened?
Outwardly nice, fairly but not very intelligent men who become self-satisfied bullies.
I'd say that is consistent with most of the elder bodies I had to deal with
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AnonJW
90% of the Elders that I know are good guys, misguided yes but genuine in what they do. Totally agree though, Holy spirit simply can't be involved in the appointing of such men, servants either. Some as we know actually lie when asked those questions re past sins and child abuse. The Holy spirit would detect this?
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Bubblegum Apotheosis
The Holy Spirit was able to pick the thief in Joshua "Achan" who stold from Jehovah. The Holy Spirit removed Annanias and Saphiras (Acts) who lied to the Apostle Peter, about the sale of their property. It would be nice, if Jehovah was not blammed for hand picking some bad apples. It's disingenuine for the Society to say, "The Holy Spirit appoints the elders and servants" when they know this is not true. It's bad juju, to make outlandish statments!
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cantleave
TBH most appointments are somewhat political, as well as the number of hours reported, the prospective elder's family and their attitude are taken into account, and also how well they get on with who else is already on the BOE. We had one guy wjo desparately wanted to be an elder but the hedges around his house were deemed too high for him to to qualify!
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Bubblegum Apotheosis
cant'leave: Don't you find it disturbing, how the Holy Spirit is guided by the landscape of a brother's hedges. The Holy Spirit is guided by how many times you "wine and dine" the elders and elderettes. How you appear in Saturday Field Service, (even if you just get dressed to do arrangements and head straight back home for pre-noon nap.) to the Flock, if you are hospitable to the C.O. and all the right players. People Pleasers, Politics and Pretense are the guiding forces of appointing a MS or Elder. Nothing more and nothing less! I know a brother who use to buy the elders new book bags, give lots of greenbacks to the CO and mow the lawn of the P.O.
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AnonJW
Here is some extra on the subject:
w023/15p.14par.7ChristLeadsHisCongregation7
As in the first century, a small group of qualified men from among the anointed overseers now serve as the Governing Body, representing the composite faithful and discreet slave. Our Leader uses this Governing Body to appoint qualified men—whether spirit-anointed or not—as elders in the local congregations. In this regard, the holy spirit, which Jehovah has given Jesus authority to employ, plays a pivotal role. (Acts 2:32, 33) First of all, these overseers must meet the requirements set out in God’s Word, which was inspired by holy spirit. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9; 2 Peter 1:20, 21) The recommendations and appointments are made after prayer and under the guidance of the holy spirit. Additionally, the individuals appointed give evidence of producing the fruitage of that spirit. (Galatians 5:22, 23) Paul’s counsel, then, applies with equal force to all elders, whether anointed or not: “Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers.” (Acts 20:28) -
djeggnog
@Bubblegum Apotheosis:
The study edition of the Watchtower says the elders are appointed by Jehovah's Holy Spirit. It's confounding the Society does not realize that more and more elders, do not accept this claim.... I can count twenty elders off hand, who do not agree with the Watchtower's claim on this matter.
That would be interesting.
The Holy Spirit, does not guide the BOE, or we would not have appointed a pedophile, chronic fornicator, a [thief, drunkard,] pathological liars and other cowards... Who still believes elders are picked by Jehovah, honestly I don't know who is that stupid!
Well, I am "that stupid." I take that this your opinion, but a pedophile, a chronic fornicator, or a thief, a drunkard or a pathological liar can be appointed as a elder by means of the holy spirit. The central body of elders to whom Jehovah's Witnesses refer as the "Governing Body" are, like the local body of elders, part of the Christian congregation, which is in subjection to Jesus Christ, the head of the Christian congregation, but it is by means of holy spirit that the "faithful and discreet slave" (Matthew 24:45-47), as represented by the Governing Body, received its appointment to preside over the slave's "domestics" as well as over the rest of the Christian household to make appointments of the local body of elders, which scripturally-qualified men, who serve as "shepherds and teachers," are as "gifts" given by Jesus, men to whom Christians in the local congregation are directed to "be submissive." (Ephesians 4:7, 8, 11-13; Hebrews 13:17)
So a question to which one might need a response is this one: And if Jesus has given the GB/elders at the local level such authority, where is the proof?
I've cited a few scriptures above that indicate that the local elders, even the central body of elders, were appointed by holy spirit, so that their authority to preside and "take care of God's congregation" (1 Timothy 3:5) is based on the spiritual qualifications that the holy spirit has clearly laid out for those serving as overseers and ministerial servants in the local congregation. Let me rephrase this: Elders are duly appointed to serve in the local congregation by means of holy spirit, and the scriptural proof of this can be found by reading 1 Timothy 3:1-10, 12, 13, for it is only by examining the things we read in the Bible as to the qualifications that elders must meet that we can prove to ourselves that the holy spirit itself has appointed such men as overseers in the congregation, for it is through the Scriptures that the holy spirit speaks.
It is true that many Jehovah's Witnesses do not understand that the holy spirit speaks through the Scriptures even though they have actively been Jehovah's Witnesses for many years, and the holy spirit is actually what gives substance to the elder arrangement in the Christian congregation, but you are free to reject what things I have here explained to you.
Jehovah is the author of the Bible, and it is by means of his holy spirit that the Bible was, in fact, written. We are "consulting" Jehovah when we both read and study his word, and do according to what the holy spirit directs. If it sounds a bit strange to hear me speak about the holy spirit giving direction or speaking, it may be that you have not become acquainted with the fact that the holy spirit speaks through the scriptures we read in the Bible.
The holy spirit speaks to us the very same way as it spoke to the Christians in Jesus' day, namely, through the Bible. For example, at Mark 12:36, we read Jesus' reference to Psalm 110:1, in that he states that "by the holy spirit David himself said, 'Jehovah said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet."'" Yes, David penned this psalm, and Jesus quoted the words of David's psalm, but the point here is that when Jesus quoted from this psalm at Mark 12:36, he was letting the holy spirit speak. Likewise, when we read Psalm 110:1 today, we would likewise be allowing the holy spirit to speak since these inspired expressions of God would not be our own words, but God's words.
Similarly, the apostle Paul personifies the holy spirit in his saying at Hebrews 10:15-18 that "the holy spirit also bears witness to us, for after it has said: '"This is the covenant that I shall covenant toward them after those days," says Jehovah. "I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,"' it says afterwards: 'And I shall by no means call their sins and their lawless deeds to mind anymore.' Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin." IOW, Paul indicates here that the holy spirit speaks to us, even "bears witness to us," whenever we read a scripture from the Bible, as when Paul quotes Jeremiah 31:33, 34 and introduces these two verses by indicating that this is how the holy spirit speaks or "bears witness" today.
If you were to read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes my view as one of Jehovah's Witnesses as to the meaning of this same passage, in my mind you have a mistaken view that needs to be adjusted to the Scriptures, but you are the only one that could prove to yourself from the Scriptures whether or not you have a mistaken viewpoint. God is not going to suddenly make a declaration to you in declaring me right and you wrong, but God's spirit is the One that will reveal the truth and it does so progressively. (Did you notice how I just personified the holy spirit by calling it "the One"?)
In the first century AD, the good news was being preached as good news to those being chosen and called to the heavenly kingdom, but the good news today is now being directed to those who hope to live forever under God's kingdom here on earth. We became Jehovah's Witnesses by virtue of our having been being baptized in the Father's name as the Most High, and witnesses of Jesus for we acknowledge Jesus' outstanding role in vindicating Jehovah's name, but we were also baptized in the Son's name as the Messiah and our Redeemer, he having been given by his Father a name or office that is greater than any other name given. Being baptized in the name of holy spirit is what gives us the power to speak to others what God's word says and means.
It was from Pentecost of the year 33 AD forward that the holy spirit began to be poured out that Jesus' disciples began to "receive power" as to come to an understanding of the deep things of God. Among those that received holy spirit was the apostle Paul who wrote what things we read today in the Bible because he was moved by God's holy spirit to write those 14 books that he is credited with writing. Whereas back in the first century AD, Paul received supernatural gifts of the spirit, Jehovah's Witnesses today do not receive holy spirit supernaturally. We teach others based on what the holy spirit says to us through the pages of the Bible. This is important to understand for there are many people that are of the mistaken belief that Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are zapped by Jehovah with a supernatural force, the holy spirit, which is not the case.
The expression "spirit anointed Christians" is another often misunderstood phrase. "Spirit anointed" has to do with one's heavenly calling, with God's spirit having borne witness with the spirit of those who have been called and chosen by God and adopted by him as sons. (Romans 8:16) However, I myself am filled with holy spirit the same as are many other Jehovah's Witnesses (else it would not be possible for a Christian to grieve it!), but this expression -- being "filled with holy spirit" -- that some fail to comprehend doesn't imply nor does it mean that I have or anyone else has been zapped with a portion of God's holy spirit.
This expression simply means that I have been "empowered" by God's word, or energized by the same "power" that was given to Jesus' early disciples back in 33 AD, except that "power" was received supernaturally whereas this same "power" today is received through the things we read in the Bible.
Holy spirit is what empowers Christians to speak the word of God with boldness. Being baptized in the name of holy spirit is what gives us the power to speak to others what the Bible says and means. Since Jehovah's Witnesses put their faith in God's word, God's spirit may lead us to the realization that we may have gotten something wrong, that we may have drawn a wrong conclusion about something we may have understood differently in the past. Over the years, such progressive changes have occurred many tines as our understanding of the Bible increases, so over the years there have been many adjustments in our understanding, and these adjustments are published as soon as practicable in our literature, and at our Kingdom Halls, circuit and district assemblies. Holy spirit would in this case have revealed the truth to us progressively since what we had discerned in the past to be true will have turned out not to have been true, for something we discover in the Bible is what prompted a change in our viewpoint.
Jehovah's Witnesses are led by what things we read in the Bible and by what things we discern from the things we read in it, so that while we might get it wrong at times, we are willing to adjust our viewpoint when it becomes necessary to do so, such as when we realize that our understanding of something that the holy spirit says in God's word turns out to be mistaken. God's holy spirit speaks through His inspired word and it is often in hindsight that Jehovah's Witnesses come to the realization that we have come to a wrong understanding of what the holy spirit says, a wrong understanding of what the Bible is saying to us, and so, whenever we should err, we will make whatever adjustments are necessary since, as Jehovah's Witnesses, we endeavor to teach things that are in harmony with what the holy spirit actually does say and not with what we may have thought the holy spirit was saying.
Our being directed by holy spirit means that one must be in harmony with it. Another way to put this, being led by holy spirit means to conform one's life so that it is in harmony with the things that one reads in God's word. However, it is important to understand that what being directed by holy spirit or being led by it doesn't mean is that Jehovah ever gets anything wrong when we get something wrong. It isn't Jehovah that "gets it wrong," but we ourselves that seek guidance from his word, the Bible, and do not for whatever reason accurately discern what the Bible is saying. To be "led by God's spirit" means that we are observing God's word in our lives and subjecting ourselves to the spiritual guidance that Jehovah provides to us in the Bible.
The Bible was inspired by God, for the men that contributed to its pages were all "borne along by holy spirit" (2 Peter 1:21), but being directed by God's spirit requires one to submit to what things the holy spirit directs, that is to say, we must do our best to adhere and subject ourselves to the spiritual guidance that Jehovah provides in the Bible. (Galatians 5:16, 18)
Because Jehovah's Witnesses are led by holy spirit, only qualified men are appointed to serve as overseers based on the standard provided in God's word, so in this way they are appointed by holy spirit according to the scriptural requirements set forth at 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9, and by the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses through the recommendations made by spiritually "certified men ... full of spirit and wisdom." (Acts 6:3)
If Jehovah's Witnesses are being led by God's holy spirit, how is it possible that this central body of elders in Brooklyn, NY, the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses, could keep getting so many things wrong? Well, mistakes happen to human beings all of the time, and Russell's mistake in 1876 affected quite a few people and lasted for 40 years until he finished his earthly course, and with Rutherford at the helm, Russell's mistake came to affect even more people even after his death in 1942, for an additional 27 years -- that is to say, for 67 years! -- until Russell's mistake was finally corrected in 1943.
Does Jehovah, the Great Timekeeper, care about Bible chronology? Probably. Does he care about the truth? Yes, I believe he does. Is Jehovah so petty as to abandon his timetable in order to look for someone else less imperfect than was Russell to guide his people? Russell made a mistake that lasted some 67 years, but his mistake didn't affect God's schedule at all, and knowing well how imperfect we human beings are, God was certainly able to forgive Russell his 67-year mistake. What mistake is that? Maybe I'll elaborate in another message, but I just wanted to make the point that when Jehovah's Witnesses get something wrong, this doesn't mean that Jehovah is responsible in some way for our getting it wrong. We read God's word and try to discern what it says to the congregations of God, and at times we get it wrong. It's as simple as that.
But in Jehovah's theocratic organization, Jesus is the head of the Christian congregation, while the governing body that serves as the central body of elders are viewed as brothers, the same as the rank-and-file are brothers. Consequently, Jehovah's Witnesses are being guided, not by the faithful and discreet slave, not by the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses, but by holy spirit.
There is no distinction to be made between the appointment of an elder that qualifies to serve as such in the congregation whose conduct is not exemplary and the appointment of an elder that does meet the scriptural requirements to serve as such while at the same time he should be having an affair, which has escaped the scrutiny of the local body of elders. If the affair should end, good, but whether it does or it doesn't, the holy spirit that appoints one to serve as an elder is the same holy spirit that will remove that elder from such an appointment when circumstances arise that outs that elder's affair, for "God is not one to be mocked," even though some may do so. (Galatians 6:7)
@djeggnog
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Lozhasleft
Loz x