AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

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  15

  Does the GB keep a list of all members of 144 000, alive and dead?

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've always wondered how they keep track of all members,.

  like keeping a list and then scratching off those who pass away.. for example:.

  bro minimus.

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  AllTimeJeff

  No, it would NOT have thousands of names on that list.

  I am probably taking the question and the title of this thread too literally, but you have to understand that from the GB's point of view, a partaker is NOT of the 144,000, even if they are baptized JW's.

  We all know that there is no way to verify dead "annointed" ones, esp after the 1930's, when JW's started to develop their own laity class.

  There is no list of every partaker. There is a list of "annointed" partakers that the GB keeps track of that they consider to be "genuine annointed."

  This was not done throughout the history of JW's. I doubt they would claim that the list is all encompasing. (i.e. plausible deniability) But make no mistake that genuine annointed Christians are kept track of. The rest are ignored, other then to count them once a year.

  Why else have it as an option to check off if the publisher claims to be annointed or other sheep? It is still on every publishers record card.

  Particularly are brothers paid attention to. It isn't a list that they refer to to keep track of all who claim to be part of the 144,000. It is a list to keep track of those who claim to be annointed. Big difference there. It accomplishes two things: 1) Keeps track of potential trouble makers. 2) Keeps track of potential company men as future leaders.
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  15

  Does the GB keep a list of all members of 144 000, alive and dead?

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've always wondered how they keep track of all members,.

  like keeping a list and then scratching off those who pass away.. for example:.

  bro minimus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  AllTimeJeff

  Just to clarify, the CO is depended upon to verify "genuine annointed" to the branch. Locally, there is no provision for reporting names of partakers to the branch.
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  30

  FRAUD at the proper time: Watchtower swindle and GB nonsense

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  food at the proper time?

  there is a huge difference between an opinion and a false teaching.. what if it could be unambiguously demonstrated that a teaching is not merely opinion but a false religious view passed off as absolute truth in the name of a higher authority?.

  would that not be fraud?

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  AllTimeJeff

  Agonus

  Surely if there was a strikingly similar vein of belief (other then an invisible personality in the heavens to worship) that would actually prove something, then it would have been pieced together by now.

  The fact that man has in its history always worshipped something they created in their imagination doesn't prove anything. So far, none of those gods have been proven right? Isn't it a bit of hubris for this generations gods to be considered to their heretofore failed counterparts of the past?

  It isn't the belief in something or someone greater then yourself that really disturbs me. It is that it is argued as though it should be accepted fact, using faulty premises, disingenuous arguments, and at times, downright falsehoods.

  That is why I am a big proponent of seperating the quality of "spirituality" (semantics aside on the word) from the groups that claim it as their property, organized religion. One's personal path shouldn't be dictated by the superstitious agenda of any particular group.
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  8

  Gerrit Losch Congratulates the Saints!

  by lepermessiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "even though football is from satan the devil, i must congratulate the saints on a hard-fought victory!".

  i wonder if he enjoyed the hand holding and embracing from all of those grown men!

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  AllTimeJeff

  Gerrit Losch is full of shit. Probably a Patriots fan too....
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  24

  Fighting the Cult of the Watchtower Good or Bad? Does it Give Your Life Some Meaning?

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i left this mind control cult i have continued to offer resistance in what ever ways i thought good at the time.. but i'm faced with the question: is it good or bad idea?

  or how far should i go and to what lengths should i go in my efforts to fight this cult?.

  i think being a jw for 29 years has defined a large chunk of my life and to just try to forget about it may be a big mistake.

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  AllTimeJeff

  This is something I think about every day.

  We all fight our different ways. Some are more effective or better at it then others.

  Not an easy question, and definitely a personal one to answer for each of us.
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  15

  Does the GB keep a list of all members of 144 000, alive and dead?

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've always wondered how they keep track of all members,.

  like keeping a list and then scratching off those who pass away.. for example:.

  bro minimus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Sister Mary, I am absolutely positive they have your name somewhere on a list.

  Nathan, let me clarify. I don't know if you ever took count at a Memorial for example, but every year, anyone who partakes is observed. Any baptized JW who partakes (obviously visitors who partake are not counted) is sent in as a partaker. Thats it.

  If they are newly partaking, two elders will talk to the publisher. If the publisher professes to be of the annointed, then it is duly noted on their publisher record cards.

  When the CO reviews all the cards, he will see this, and note the name.

  Usually, the CO will discuss the behavior of the publisher with the elders if they are newly partaking. If it is a brother, the recent articles about how those who profess to be of the annointed are not to be treated any differently then other sheep publishers will be reviewed, and a likely shepherding call will be scheduled.

  If a long time publisher (esp a brother) professes to be of the annointed, then special attention is paid to them. How do you think Morris and Jackson for example got noticed? Yes, they were in special full time service. But that is the point. There is a list, certain names are taken, and they are considered "genuine annointed." Circuit Overseers are depended upon to notice. If a CO believes that a (newly) professed annointed one might not be "up to JW annointed snuff" (my phraseology), then it is merely noted that they partook and are claiming to be annointed.

  To me, it is all the more damning that they keep track, because they know better then anyone how much of a sham, both doctrinally and from a simple math equation (less then 144,000 faithful Christians from Jesus time to the 20th century?? REALLY?) their bullshit teaching is.
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  15

  Does the GB keep a list of all members of 144 000, alive and dead?

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've always wondered how they keep track of all members,.

  like keeping a list and then scratching off those who pass away.. for example:.

  bro minimus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Gayle, there is a list, and they do it for their own posterity. When they use the phrase "genuine annointed", its due to their own approved list.
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  30

  FRAUD at the proper time: Watchtower swindle and GB nonsense

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  food at the proper time?

  there is a huge difference between an opinion and a false teaching.. what if it could be unambiguously demonstrated that a teaching is not merely opinion but a false religious view passed off as absolute truth in the name of a higher authority?.

  would that not be fraud?

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  There is a huge difference between an opinion and a false teaching.

  Here is a potential opportunity for theists and atheists/agnostics to "get along".

  It's simple really. Everyone, even Perry, is obviously allowed their personal beliefs. They are entitled to their opinions and freedom to worship. (and the opposite being true, atheists do not have to worship or to have religious precepts forced upon them as the law of the land)

  We on this board do well to realize that people likely aren't going to change their stripes too much. The best that can be hoped for is a bit of honesty. An example statement would be

  Theist: "Yes, I believe in an invisible being, I worship him and it adds great meaning in my life. I do not have answers to all logical questions for my beliefs, but choose to worship still thanks to my faith. I wouldn't expect others to believe as I do unless they were so inclined, and I understand the reasons why." (I guess the understanding part would be the rub there wouldn't it?)

  Atheist: "I see no evidence of God as he is presented traditionally. I allow that most of the world does believe in a supernatural power, and I respect their right to believe this. As I ask logical and reasonable questions and do not get the answers to satisfy the logic, I am content to allow others their opinions, even as we continue to discuss the matter from various points of view."

  Atheists do not teach doctrine. They merely point out the obvious.

  It would be helpful for some theists to do the same.

  For the record, I am rather empathetic to theists on this one. I think at this point in human evolution, most of us need some kind of personal belief system that gives meaning and purpose to life. The challenge is to realize that your personal beliefs, which are at their core, your opinions, are not proveable by any known measure, esp when compared to the hundreds of thousands of competing belief systems that exist on planet Earth at this moment.

  Such simple math (i.e. the sheer amount of belief systems) should humble the most ardent theist. Believe as you will, but don't argue to strongly for what at best can be argued to a draw, due to the same amount of evidence that is in existence for all belief systems in the world.

  (re read my last sentence a couple of times, it makes sense. Trust me. )
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  16

  "Woe for the Earth and for the Sea!"

  by wannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "woe for the earth and for the sea!".

  he has made known the end from the beginning, and what is still to come; as well, assures us all there, that his purpose will stand, and he will do all that he pleases.. .

  "{jeremiah 25:31-36 niv}.

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  AllTimeJeff

  So I guess you disagree with JW teachings?
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  32

  What's in it for the Governing Body?

  by dissed in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for many jw's, they point to the gb as wonderful examples of zealous, humble, older men that are only serving jg for right and correct reasons.. unlike many of the preachers we see on tv, they are, and this is the important point, 'not in it for the money'.. of course we see them differently on this site, exposed many times over, as being self-serving hypocrites.. but if you want to win-over a jw doubter, this is one of the questions you have to answer.

  "what's in it for the gb member?

  why are they doing this if not for the money?".

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  AllTimeJeff

  Being a religious leader, even in Western democracies, is like having a never ending expense account.

  No, they don't have salaries. But I think that anyone who has spent anytime with the GB knows that they don't live poorly. They have many material possessions, and don't pay for travel.

  But while they get to go home to comfort, I don't think they do their GB thing for $$. They do it for the kick of power. It is a real 'delusion of grandeur' situation. They are literally deluded.