Posts by AllTimeJeff

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

AllTimeJeff

Perry, God IGNORES HIS CHILDREN TODAY!

In the bible, God CLEARLY BEATS HIS CHILDREN!

Lets get that out of the way.

Why bring Adam into the picture? What about YOUR sin Jeff? What about my sin? It is not necessary to invoke Adam or the Genesis account to examine that is it? I cannot measure Adam, but each can measure his or herself.

What? Perry, if Adam didn't "sin", would "Jesus" need to die for our since in order to be reconciled to god?

NO!

Premise = False. What are you talking about 'Why bring Adam into it?' Because if you don't believe in original sin, then the whole need for Jesus sacrifice as the old ancient book the bible describes, is not necessary. You do remember saying this to me and asking me to "prove" it.

Just the God and Suffering Reconciliation part ATJ

Show me the illogic.

What you don't get is that I AM NOT A SINNER AND I AM NOT SEPARATED FROM GOD AND THUS NOT IN NEED OF JESUS SACRIFICE OR RECONCILIATION TO GOD. I BASE THIS ON THE FACT THAT THE GENESIS ACCOUNT IS FICTION. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

You are moving from A to B to C without properly engaging in any substantive conversation, JW style. How can you be taken seriously?

71

Should The Police Be Able To Search Without A Warrant?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for example, if you were stopped for suspiscion of driving under the influence, should the police be allowed to search through your cell phone?.

AllTimeJeff

Enjoyed reading this.

HELL NO the police shouldn't search without warrants. Probable cause is the easiest thing to invent. It's tantamount to saying "I felt like searching them."

The constitutional ammendments in question are not the problem in this instance. And although As an aside since it was mentioned, while I like to call myself a liberal here, one thing I disagree with the Dems is over wepons and guns. I know in other countries, you can't get guns, only the governements get them, and so yeah, violent crimes are down. Thats a fact.

And that will never happen in the United States of America. YOU try going up to Northern Michingan and telling those guys that they can't have guns anymore. What we really need is to enforce existing laws and make gun crimes more serious then drug crimes.

Anyway, this turned into how the Consititution can be changed. It won't be, and for that I am thankful. It keeps things like banning Gay Marriage away from Constitutional law. It forces law makers and citizenry to confront their issues without having knee jerk reactions with unintended consequences.

17

The WHO at the Super Bowl!

by lepermessiah in

i was having a conversation with a younger guy at work - he barely knew who the who was....... he was telling me that he recognized the songs but thought they sounded pretty rough.. i told him that i wish he could have seen them even 10 years ago - i saw them live in 2000 and roger still sounded awesome, and pete was still.....pete!.

the real big loss was losing the ox - john entwistle was so important to that band.

he was amazing live....... moon was a huge loss, but after je passed, i really wish they would have stopped performing live as the who.. here is an awesome taste of him in action.......rip ox............ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvl39lbzgmw.

AllTimeJeff

At least Daltry got the scream at the end alright. That would have been unforgivable to mess up.

Also, it would have set CSI back years....

13

In This Issue: 'Meat in Due Season'--Do We Eat It Gratefully?

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

in this time of the end, the world continues to degenerate further and further into wickedness.

indeed, "wicked men and imposters advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.

" (2 tim.

AllTimeJeff

My bologna has a first name....

11

Yay, Canada gets it's first Olympic Gold Medial on home-soil

by Simon in

(well, snow actually).

can you believe it?

we didn't get a gold in the montreal or calgary olympics !.

AllTimeJeff

It's hard to be an American and root for Canada... Thats who I want to see in the Gold medal game.

Btw, I know this is a cold war hangover, but seeing Russia lose at anything never gets old.... The Ovechkin Ovechkins are going to rock their way to 4th place, Bronze if they're lucky.

14

Is Believing in God Immoral?

by AK - Jeff in

a recurrent theme thrust forward by many theists is that morality is unattainable without belief in god.

the idea seems to pervade that thinking, that without god-restraint, fear of lost eternity, man would run seriously amok, freely plundering, murdering, and bringing general havoc upon the innocent.

might there be some logical points to counter such thinking.

AllTimeJeff

Oh man, I am having trouble seeing the responses... Not this one!

AKJeff, ignore the attempts of some to derail this and be sure to restart it if we can't get more replies.

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

AllTimeJeff

Until someone can logically explain why God "allows" suffering and doesn't step in, I could give a rats behind about the reconciliation. But here is one thing you have stated over and over.

We are born sinful.

Thats right, that little baby is doomed unless he accepts what, in your mind Perry, is the only way to reconciliation with god. Jesus.

That baby will grow, develop all kinds of personality traits, might even be born in China, or a Muslim country, where logically, they are doomed because they won't accept Jesus.

Doomed. Baby. Born dead unless he accepts Christ. Doomed because our original parents ate a piece of fruit after a discussion of good vs evil with a snake.

Logic?

Your premise is wrong. Always has been. You fight this point because without it, you would have to back off a lot of your statements, but you can't prove logically why we are alienated from god without the illogical Genesis account. Genesis is an allegory at best. Without accepting that I am in need of reconciliation based on the 2 naked people and snake story, I have no need for your snake oil.

You refuse to see that sin is a control mechanism of religion, of which, you personally have bought. Again and again, I respect your right to view things exactly as you do for you. But to argue it for others in the manner you do, and I must object.

No logic. Premise based on fairy tales. That is what you believe in Perry.

So in view of the foregoing, why would I try to find the illogic in the reconciliation of Jesus when the whole thing is illogical?

In short, your starting line belief that we are sinners in need of reconciliation based on the eating of a fruit by 2 naked people in some garden in the middle east after being talked into it by a snake is illogical. It's all downhill from there.

70

Does Anyone Miss Being In The Jehovah's Witness Cult?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i saw 6 jw zombies walking up a hill near where i live the other day.

they all were dressed nicely.

they walked together in twos.

AllTimeJeff

What I really miss is preparting 2 meeting parts, 2 shep calls, judical cases, elders meeting, RBC duties, letters to read and file, oh, and the glossy eyed, upset, depressed people.

Yeah, I miss that.

61

A Problem With General Christian Beliefs

by AllTimeJeff in

first of all, lets head off some potential problems before they start.

i am not doing this thread to argue.

if you would like to, thats fine.

AllTimeJeff

But what I was trying to get at was the altruistic love we see so often, as well as the idiotic romantic love, serve no purpose in an evolutionary or survival of the fittest sense, so when John the writer of the letters , says "God is Love" does that mean that when we love, we bring God in to existence ?

Not that "He" exists, but that we create him by our love ?

Wobble, I think you are on to something there. As a philosophy in the abstract, it can work. Having said that, you don't need to call it this to love others. It merely is an interpretation, but doesn't prove the superiority of Christianity, nor is Christianity necesarry to believe this if you want to have this philosophy as your own personal religion.

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

AllTimeJeff

Oh, the illogic of the Bible, with Seas parting, Floods happening, families through incest (Lot and his merry daughters) and the "investigation" of Sodom and Gomorrah before they were "salted" away.

And that's just Genesis and Exodus.

Yup, lots of logic.....