AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

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  52

  Doesn't an 'allegorical' Garden of Eden nullify the need for a Ransom?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have noted in the past few months or years that christians, when faced the nearly insurmountable evidence that the garden of eden events are improbable if not impossible [i refer to fossil evidence that supports hominid existence on this planet perhaps millions of years ago, as example] to overcome, that the 'fall back' position is often that the garden of eden account is just allegory, not literal.. but it occurs to me that if it is just allegorical, then there is no specific event to mark the 'fall of man' and 'original sin'.

  without that, what purpose is served with the idea of a 'ransom' in which 'the last adam' overcomes the sin of adam in the garden.

  why would nt writers refer to the events as if literal if they are just allegory?

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  AllTimeJeff

  Well, the need for ransoming could well be allegorical too, some basic human need for redemption from guilt, forgiveness that actually only can come first from ourselves and then from others.

  Thats fair enough.

  Forgiveness and believing one is forgiven does certainly have some inarguable benefit to a person, although there's no way to prove supernatural benefit.

  Agreed. A lack of guilt definitely does wonders....

  I never try to prove anything supernatural, I just occasionally think I'm experiencing it. The very word means it's outside of the natural observable and therefore, provable realm of things, doesn't it?

  Thats true. This also puts Jesus sacrifice and Star Trek on an equal level.
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  52

  Doesn't an 'allegorical' Garden of Eden nullify the need for a Ransom?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have noted in the past few months or years that christians, when faced the nearly insurmountable evidence that the garden of eden events are improbable if not impossible [i refer to fossil evidence that supports hominid existence on this planet perhaps millions of years ago, as example] to overcome, that the 'fall back' position is often that the garden of eden account is just allegory, not literal.. but it occurs to me that if it is just allegorical, then there is no specific event to mark the 'fall of man' and 'original sin'.

  without that, what purpose is served with the idea of a 'ransom' in which 'the last adam' overcomes the sin of adam in the garden.

  why would nt writers refer to the events as if literal if they are just allegory?

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  AllTimeJeff

  I would be interested in just reading a Christians take on this. I don't wish to debate it per se, but I think Jeff makes a very good point. Simply because Jesus and Paul both referred to original sin.

  If original sin is allegorical, then the value of Jesus sacrifice would thus be allegorical. Yet, we all know the "blood must be shed" aspect of the sacrifice.

  So, if you want to say that the events of the GoE are literal, you have problems.

  If you want to say they are allegorical, you really do call into question the teaching and merits of Jesus sacrifice.

  Interesting....
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  282

  What accusations do you have about us JWs? AND what group are YOU a part of?

  by theMadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  i'm one of the few jws that freely admit our faults and mistakes.. let's compare notes!.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I admire the Catholics faith to. It doesn't make their claims that they have the truth relevant. Or JW's. Or Mormons. Or Scientologists. Or Muslims.... (stop me if you see a trend)
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  87

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-21-10 WT Study (REAL CHRISTIANS)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  christ's true followers (5).

  true christians (3).

  (matt.

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  AllTimeJeff

  They are aka trolls.
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  36

  UNITED NATIONS CHARTER read in all congregations at beginning of SPECIAL TALK

  by Life is now in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  then 1 thessalonians 5 read about 'peace and security'.

  the speakers instructed not to embellish the statements.. 'noble sentiments' was mentioned about the un charter but no criticism.. followed by the need for god's kingdom.. it sounded more like an advert for the un to me.

  did anyone else hear it?

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  AllTimeJeff

  There is no uniform effort for JW's to identify themselves with the UN, that is for sure. The UN would not require them to support them in their talks.

  The GB has shot itself in the foot enough with their involvement as an NGO. And yes, to get that, they have sure backed off their anti UN rhetoric, but that is about as clear as it has been....
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  14

  Some Atheists Like to Use the Analogy of a 'Crutch' for Religion

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some atheists like to use the analogy of religion being like a "crutch.".

  dr. david eller suggests, below, that this is a poor analogy.

  in my own, limited experience, his words ring true.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I have given thought to that analogy, and I think it is disrespectful. It is an opinion, and I have seen cogent arguements made in the case of individuals, but to apply it to all theists doesn't aid in the discussion. If one is interested in having a discussion that is.....
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  87

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-21-10 WT Study (REAL CHRISTIANS)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  christ's true followers (5).

  true christians (3).

  (matt.

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  3. 
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  AllTimeJeff

  Here's a pearl of truth for you: You are either a troll, or a disobedient JW. For your sake, I hope you are a disobedient JW, because there is hope for you.

  Now, if you will excuse me, I have some hockey to watch.
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  87

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-21-10 WT Study (REAL CHRISTIANS)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  christ's true followers (5).

  true christians (3).

  (matt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  At least we know where the pig is.
• 
  282

  What accusations do you have about us JWs? AND what group are YOU a part of?

  by theMadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  .

  i'm one of the few jws that freely admit our faults and mistakes.. let's compare notes!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Let me make this easy: Would you be willing to admit that the Governing Body has purposely misrepresented previous propheicies that have proven false, as well as the histories of Russell and Rutherford?

  If you think they have been 100% honest, then we have nothing further to discuss.
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  282

  What accusations do you have about us JWs? AND what group are YOU a part of?

  by theMadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  .

  i'm one of the few jws that freely admit our faults and mistakes.. let's compare notes!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Are you saying you know better then those who have been both lied to and mistreated by Jehovah's Witnesses?