Well hell, it was in the newspaper, letters came from the UN confirming it, so this guy is really swimming in the River Denial.
AllTimeJeff
JoinedPosts by AllTimeJeff
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131
Can we trust this website? (About the subject in which Jehovah's Witnesses were a NGO)
by possible-san incan we trust this website?.
watchtower as a united nations ngo - critical look at the conspiracy theory.
http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/.
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If you felt/feel that you had/have good, close "friends" in the org, how did/does it feel to just give them up?
by Crisis of Conscience inthis is my biggest dilema.
although mentally i really feel i could walk away from the org right now, i still have genuine love for the people i have come to know over the years.
i love people!.
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AllTimeJeff
People are fragile, moldable, and easily influenced. Thats how I view it.
I guess I was never one to hold a lot of grudges against my fellow compatriots. How could I? I shot up the JW corporate ladder with a missle on my back. I didn't care for a while.
But I was also duped into believing that how I felt towards "spiritually weak" ones, disfellowshipped, etc, was proper. When you are trained to believe that your very thoughts are monitored by Jehovah, then you think in a way that isn't healthy.
I planned my escape for a while. One thing I considered was, how would I treat my friends? All of them. Would I leave with a scathing email? Letters mailed with all that I knew and learned?
I decided against intervening in their journey at all. Were it not for the odd circumstances that forced me to acknowledge I was in a cult, I can easily see where I might still be in. I can't lie. If I didn't see the weirdest of the weird, I would have continued to lie to myself, just like the cult trained me to do.
So how can I get mad at those who are continuously being trained to lie to themselves like me? I already knew the built in mechanisms that the GB teaches. They know they are f*cked in the head. Thats why they preach about apostasy so much. I heard about apostates all my life as a JW, and the first apostate I ever met was me!
In the end, I chose not to hold my shunning against anyone. Were I to try and insert myself in a life I was no longer welcome in, I would be tiring out myself and them. I would be taking responsibility for their diseased thinking. I could only fix me.
I miss my friends and I love them. That is why I let them go. I forgive them. My life goes on.
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Do Not Interpretations Belong To.....
by AllTimeJeff inone of the biggest things that the governing body hangs their hat on is a simple concept.
"we, the gb, are the only ones authorized to interpret the bible, what it means, what to enforce, and what not to enforce.".
joseph in the book of genesis told the pharaoh after a perplexing dream "do not interpretations belong to god?".
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AllTimeJeff
One of the biggest things that the Governing Body hangs their hat on is a simple concept. "We, the GB, are the only ones authorized to interpret the bible, what it means, what to enforce, and what not to enforce."
Joseph in the book of Genesis told the Pharaoh after a perplexing dream "Do not interpretations belong to god?"
And therein lies the choice, esp for those considering leaving JW's, or who have left and are trying to keep their heads straight. Whose job is it to interpret.... whatever?
It's not just Jehovah's Witnesses on this one. I have seen bumper stickers on cars that says "Real Catholics Don't Support Abortion." I guess that's true, if you want to ignore the millions of Catholics who actually do support a womens right to choose. I know Catholics who absolutely support a womans right to choose. And use birth control.
With groups, it's all or nothing. How much of the responsibility to decide on what to believe in are you willing to farm out to a group in order to fit in?
One of the reasons I think that internet forums involving former JW's can get so heated is simply that, for better or worse, most former JW's have accepted their responsibility to interpret things for themselves.
The concept is foreign to practicing JW's, and I have a sneaky suspicion that it is the abdication of the responsibility to think for themselves, to interpret for themselves, that keeps most JW's in. I am not one who thinks that most JW's think their little club is perfect. I do believe, esp in western countries, that JW's are very aware that something is at least a little off. They hear the whispers in their heart...
"Do not interpretations belong to god?" That's the other whisper. Except that the GB speaks for god. Or so they claim. And so you listen. It's not up to you to question, or even (gasp) to disagree with the GB. Maybe for whatever reason, you do think that Jehovah is the true god. But you want to worship him in your own way. Maybe you think blood transfusions are alright.
Can you say those things? No. Think them? Sure, but you will go through the very lonely, and mentally unhealthy process, of never sharing what you really think with anyone.
Even in little things that really don't matter, a JW must be careful. If it's sex, it can't be oral. Thats perverted. Why? That's their interpretation of perverted. If it's a TV show, watch what you want. Unless an elder makes a big deal about it. Because it could be considered "worldly". Anything that is interpreted "worldly" by the local elders, on up to the GB, is all it takes to make an activity, anything really, via an interpretation by an elder, or esp, in a Watchtower, to make something forbidden, or worthwhile.
Exiting JW's seem to struggle at first with the concept that they are ever allowed to interpret anything. It used to be as a JW, if someone was an idiot, but was a pioneer, or an elder, they could get away with acting like a jerk, because they were spiritually minded. Of course, if they were jerks and were inactive or irregular, they were bad association. (Later on, Ihave considered the possibility that these jerks were also fading. But I digress.....)
Now, if someone acts like a jerk, you can safely assume that its probably because they are. No need to consult with a Watchtower, or an elder, to make up your mind.
Do you want to agree with Catholics? Agnostics? Atheists? Republicans? Democrats? Tea Party members? It's up to you.
Just remember that interpretations belong to you, and you alone. It always has been that way. The more willing you are to accept that and run, the more potential you unleash, and the more powerful you will become.
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66
Highlights of Annual Meeting 2010
by elderelite infor those who are interested, the following changes were announced yesterday at the agm.
1) mts school has been done away with.
a) in its place two new schools have been formed.
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AllTimeJeff
Amazing how quickly MTS disappeared once Teddy died....
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35
Things That Matter and Things That Don't
by AllTimeJeff inbeing a jehovah's witness at any time and at any level is a major head f*ck.
the reason is that it obscures what is important and causes you to focus on what doesn't matter.. i've moved on from my jw experience.
it's a shame that i found myself a born in, taught to focus on things that don't matter.
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AllTimeJeff
I am fascinated by how my views of JW's have changed through the years, and their affects on me. That is what motivated me to write this.
There is no doubt that when anyone first leaves, its going to be an adjustment. In addition, there is a lot of residual problems associated with living and thinking as a JW, and it causes many problems at work, in relationships, and how one views themselves.
What matters when you first leave is simply to leave, and get your head right. That isn't an automatic guarantee. The GB likes to seize on as examples those who have problems if they are disfellowshipped or leave on their own, never admitting that they caused the problems in the first place.
There is no substitute for what time will teach you, but hopefully, some perspective while you go through these adjustments can help a ton.
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35
Things That Matter and Things That Don't
by AllTimeJeff inbeing a jehovah's witness at any time and at any level is a major head f*ck.
the reason is that it obscures what is important and causes you to focus on what doesn't matter.. i've moved on from my jw experience.
it's a shame that i found myself a born in, taught to focus on things that don't matter.
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AllTimeJeff
Because these topics are frequently and passionately debated on this board and others, here are some more thoughts.
MATTERS:
That you answer the god question and what being spiritual means to you.DOESN'T MATTER:
That other people find other paths. I certainly don't agree with most organized religion as to how it herds people into group think. That is dangerous to me. At the same time, the traditional church and feeling close to a "higher power" has real and tangible benefits. It isn't an easy thing to figure out, and agreement will never come. It also doesn't matter if some self righteous people insist they have it right, they know best, or that their religion is the one. We've been down that road before. It's good enough to know that there are tons of people who feel they are right and right with god, and that you aren't. Don't sweat it. They aren't changing you, and you aren't changing them.MATTERS:
That you stay abreast of current events, political or otherwise, and contribute to your community. Or if you decide you shouldn't, thats ok too.DOESN'T MATTER:
That people disagree. Listen, we live in a democracy. The strength and weakness is the same. We can be ourselves and have our own thoughts and vote. That means that "unity" or agreement is hard to come by. If you disagree with political views, the only thing I can say is, don't be a jerk about it. Conservatives, liberals, moderates and apathetics can agree to disagree. Or at least you can.Don't argue just for the rush it gives you. Arguing with people over the internet about JW's, politics, and religion can be beneficial. But it shouldn't be your only hobby.
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19
People of the Lie
by Farkel inthis topic was inspired by another recent thread started by ak jeff.
the excerpt below is from the book "people of the lie", by the late m. scott peck, who also authored the best-seller "the road less traveled.
" "people of the lie" is about the nature of evil, and dashed all my previously held notions about what evil was.. you would do yourself a favor if your attention span is long enough to take the time to read this, because as you do, i want you to relate what is being said directly to the leaders of the watchtower society, past and present.
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AllTimeJeff
Great piece.
The genius of JW's isn't their claim that they are prophets.
Their strategy is essentially has nothing to do with what they got right. Rather, their arguement is that they are chosen.
If they are chosen, then it doesn't matter if they are right. Basically, their baseline arguement is "God likes us best."
Getting it right? Not as important as getting made.
Truly evil.
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AllTimeJeff
Brother Dan, you should copy and paste your story into its own thread for the benefit of others. I missed you in Patterson. I was in class 119 in 2005.
For anyone who cares about my opinion on this, people like madjw at best are probably mischievous JW's who don't really believe and are very well aware that a group of former JW's, even and esp in the cyber world of the internet, are very easy to upset, and people like madjw get off on that.
At worst, he is as he says he is, and it makes no difference. He still is here to upset.
You have to realize something about most JW's who come here. Their view of former JW's is poor at best. Is it really worth it to allow them to upset you?
It is true, you deserve what you put up with. We also deserve how we feel if we enable people who are shit stirrers to get to us.
People like madjw are excellent practice people for how to deal with JW's in general. Just don't let them get to you. They don't matter, and they aren't worth it.
They will say things that we know aren't true, claim that they are right. So what?
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AllTimeJeff
Hey, Jeff- you don't have to be so NICE about me....
Really? Are you sure? Well with your permission then......
Didn't your mamma teach you to just say "NO!" to drugs?
Well yes. To most drugs. She advised me to avoid the Kool Aid you've been drinking.... You probably know where that is going....
Nothing you said is true; at least SOME of what the whiners say IS....
Nothing I said is true? I am so disappointed that I don't get your sterling and shiny badge of approval. Hold on while I get a Kleenex.....
So you didn't underline your Watchtower for tomorrow? Maybe you studied at your parents dining room table. It's all good bro.... You should really get back to studying though.... I know its really deep to have to memorize the answers for tomorrow. Have fun!!!!
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AllTimeJeff
Hey MadJW
I was trying to think of a clever insult, since you are into not so clever shit stirring, no mater what you call it. But I really couldn't do better then being honest.
You defend a cult. How do I know its a cult? First, I was in it. Second, I left... because it was a cult. Hundreds of millions of people have had the opportunity to join the cult. They didn't. Those that research the history of the cult and of the Presidents of the WTBTS read up and run the opposite way screaming.
You talk to people who have been hurt by the cult just to stir up painful feelings. You are a mocker. You don't care about truth, and you sure as hell don't care about people.
Now for my guesses...
It is my sincere guess that you are either living in your parents basement (again.) Don't worry, the recession will be over in a couple of years. Maybe you aren't 19 yet and are writing this from your parents basement. Probably highlighting your Watchtower lesson for tomorrow so it looks like you studied. Don't worry. The recession will be over in a couple of years, then you can learn how to clean windows for a living while you spend an inordinate amount of time on forbidden JW websites and auxilliary pioneer, hoping one day to achieve the level of "elders b*tch", aka "Ministerial Servant".
Since you like to share your opinions here, I would like to share mine about you. You are full of crap. I would call you a pinata, but hitting you wouldn't cause anything to happen other then a foul stench, and probably the expulsion of a bunch of sour patch kids.
Ciao!