Posts by Eliveleth

34

I'm curious- why 'god'?

by rimfiredancing in

jw
friends

i know how i got sucked into the b0rg- i was a very spiritual, very young and very emotionally damaged 19 year old (raised in a violent on all levels home, the usual stuff) who was having- and had always had- a lot of 'supernatural' experiences that had caused my mother to declare me 'evil' (and try to get me exorcised on the odd occasion).

i'd become confused and was trying to work out if these things were, in fact, a sign of my rejection from 'god'.

if i'd known then what i know now about the christian god, i'd have told the jw's to stick it.

Eliveleth

A few other thoughts. On Incest. Probably you are speaking of the account in Genesis of Lot and his daughters. Do you believe
that God told Lot's daughters to have sex with their father? Is there anything in the Bible that indicates that God was pleased
with that?

The Bible says that "Lot was not aware of what they had done at the time".
I am not excusing him for what happened, I am just saying that humans behave in ways that are hard for me to understand,
even today. The account in Genesis says: "The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab ; he is the father
of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi ; he is the father of the Ammonites
of today" If you read the accounts in the Bible about these nations, you can see that God did not approve of them or bless them.
How could it have been God that instigated this?

Should we condemn America, as the Muslims do, because of the perversion and immorality that goes on every day, every minute?
How can immorality be legislated? Would we want it to be dealt with like it is in the Muslim world?

I think that in some of the cases you listed, you are condemning God for human actions. Juat because it is written in the Bible
does not mean that God approved of these things. The Old Testament records the things that the Nation of Israel and the Israelites
did. It is candid, does not just tell us the good things they did, but the evil as well. But many of the things were done because
the nation did not listen to God's laws and followed their own human nature.

Your partner said: *There is NO level of 'proven' in science, because science understands that in order for something to
be 'proven' it would have to be tested under every possible opportunity in the universe*.

You said: *There is NO level of 'proven' in science, because science understands that in order for something to be 'proven'
it would have to be tested under every possible opportunity in the universe*.

I think this rule should be used when dealing with God and the Bible. Each person decides in their mind and heart what they
perceive as "true". There are things in the universe as you say that have not, cannot be proven. God is one of these things.
We can only work with our experiences, in what has happened to us as individuals.

`You said: (I am) psychic (and a very strong one), an energetic healer and someone around whom 'supernatural' things happen all
the time, which means I'm either demon possessed or a 'witch' according to the bible and fit only for burning, spitting on,
denouncing etc etc, so *very* subzero interest in conversion).

You said,according to the bible. Don't you mean according to some religious people? Many who claim to worship God have their
own ideas of what the Bible says. They interpret passages to mean what they perceive it to mean. I believe in the supernatural
and supernatural things have happened to me, but the difference in us is, that I believe it is from God. A lot of what people
condemn about the Bible and Christianity comes from their experiences with religious people.

You said: "I find that people are completely unwilling to take on the burden of 'proving' that the paranormal *isn't* possible,
but of course that's besides the point as far as they consider it."

I do not deny that people can have psychic abilities. I do not understand it, but I do not condemn it either and I have found
no where in the Bible that does. In fact, it doesn't mention it, to my knowledge. In fact, your belief in the paranormal is
very similar to one believing in God isn't it? It is true to you because of your experiences. I believe in God because of my
experiences with Him. Everything in my dealings with God has been for my good. Even my years with the Watchtower has made
me stronger in my faith. It has made me search to be able to prove to myself things about God and the Bible. I refuse to accept
what man tells me and take it at face value anymore.

Love and hugs,

Velta

34

I'm curious- why 'god'?

by rimfiredancing in

jw
friends

i know how i got sucked into the b0rg- i was a very spiritual, very young and very emotionally damaged 19 year old (raised in a violent on all levels home, the usual stuff) who was having- and had always had- a lot of 'supernatural' experiences that had caused my mother to declare me 'evil' (and try to get me exorcised on the odd occasion).

i'd become confused and was trying to work out if these things were, in fact, a sign of my rejection from 'god'.

if i'd known then what i know now about the christian god, i'd have told the jw's to stick it.

Eliveleth

rimfiredancing,

When I first read this post, I thought it was just another attempt to get a reaction. But you have been on my heart all yesterday and all night and this morning I thought I would reply to your question.

I cannot answer for every Christian, we are all at different places in our walk with God. What we do agree upon is that Jesus is the Son of God and He came to earth to show us the love of His father and to die for the world.

I believe God has given me some insight into the things in the Old Testament, that I too wondered about. Many people have the tendency to think of death as the end of life. Probably because they do not believe in God, thus this life is all there is.

One thing I will address is genocide: There have been three times in the Bible that I can recall that whole nations or cities were wiped out. The flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaan. I myself questioned," why God?" and I feel because of things I have read in the Bible that removing them from off the earth is to put them in a place to teach them. There is a scripture in 1 Peter 3:18-20 which intimates this. It says: "Christ died for sins once and for all time. The One who did what is right died for those who don't do right. He died to bring you to God. His body was put to death. But the Holy Spirit brought him back to life.

" By means of the Spirit, Christ went and preached to the spirits in prison. Long ago they did not obey. God was patient while Noah was building the ark. He waited, but only a few people went into the ark. A total of eight were saved by means of water." Genesis 6:5-7: The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth"

God cares about mankind. Nothing He does is because he hates us. It says God was grieved and his heart filled with pain because he saw what the majority of mankind was doing. It says "(he) wiped mankind from the face of the earth". Could they have not been transferred to another place? There are a lot of things in the Bible that give clues, but not details. I think that we have to really search to find why things happened the way they did and that seem to portray God in a negative way.

When people do bad things or break the law, where do we, as humans, put them? In prison. We take them away from the rest and put them in prison to prevent them from harming others. I believe this is what God does also. I believe that God removes them to a place to really rehabilitate them, unlike our prison system that merely removes them. Jesus said as much when he spoke of the day of judgment at Matthew 11:23-25 and Luke 10:12,13: "I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." Why would He speak of repentance if it were not possible.

Instead of the general diatribe against God, would you please give some specific cases that you are speaking about? Why you feel the way you do about Him? I don't know that I have all the answers you are asking for but I would like to try and give you some of the reasons that I love God in spite of all the things that I don't understand.

Please give me example of the places in the Bible you are speaking about and I will try and give you my thoughts on them as well.

Love and hugs,

Velta

14

Thank you, my friends

by Doug Mason in

dear friends,.

i would like to say thank you for the gratitude expressed for the scans i have been providing.. i had the time to do this while i was sitting at my computer during the hours, days and weeks that i cared for my very sick wife.

at the moment, my partner of 46 years lies very ill in hospital, so you will understand that i currently do not have the time to scour the various threads and posts.

Eliveleth

Doug,

Thank you so much for all the effort you have put into informing us.

We are very grateful. I will be praying for your partner/wife of those

many years. I can only imagine how hard it must be to be in that situation.

Love and hugs,

Gramma Velta

26

How I'm helping hubby see the truth! Seems to be working too!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by cognac in

(i do not take credit for this, i stole a lot of it from somebody online.

) the red is some of what i wrote out, then the black is what happened after... .

i would like us both to feel a sense of freedom to open up and discuss any and all subjects.

Eliveleth

Cognac, Honey,

As I was reading your post the same thing occurred to me as it did to liquidsky:

I hope you take this into consideration when share things about your personal relationship with your husband to the members of this board. Is he aware that you come here? And how would he feel if he read some the things you posted about him and you and your relationship?

I think it is really important to your relationship to keep your word in this area, not sharing what you find with anyone else.. Not just because he might find out, but because it is the right thing to do: to honor your relationship with him.

We are very anxious to hear what is happening but keep your study confidential as you requested him to do.

Love and hugs,

Gramma Velta

31

Am I the only one that didnt realize about the GB?

by yourmomma in

jw
friends

here is a question for you.

i'll give a little back ground.

i was raised in the witness organization however in about 1993 i encountered much hypocrisy and left for about 3 years.

Eliveleth

Wow! I just finish reading the first chapter of "Visions of Glory" by Barbara G. Harrison. I could have written that chapter (not as well),those were my experiences too. Did that ever bring back memories. I think it was the common experience of every child that was that age in that period of time. I lived that story. It brought back feelings of fear and dread as well as the joy and honor of being persecuted for Jehovah. I was expelled from the second grade for refusing to salute the flag. I remember days when I spent the entire school day in the corner with a dunce cap on my head for refusing to salute the flag or stand for the national anthem. About an hour ago I saw on the news that somewhere in a charter school one family is trying to stop the whole school from doing the pledge of allegiance because it has the words "under God" in it. ONE FAMILY is effectively getting their will done against the community. It was quite different in 1940. I remember the canvas witnessing bags and the signs "religion if a snare and a racket". My father used to drive a "sound car" with large speakers mounted on the top and he would go through a town playing a Judge Rutherford lecture (very loud) to give a witness to the people and then it was the job of all the other "publishers" to go from door to door and get all the flak. Like Barbara, at a very early age, I carried a phonograph and a bag of books and went from door to door on my own. It was an interesting time to be alive. I don't regret it, it made me strong, but I am glad that it is over and my children and grandchildren did not have to endure this craziness.

Most people who became JWs after WWII would not recognize that "Watchtower". It has changed so much and yet it is still the same controlling organization that it ever was, just different. Those of us who lived through it just kept on believing and did the transition not thinking that it was any different at all.

Cognac said: THEN I STARTED READING THE BIBLE!!! Not just the specific 1 or 2 verses in different chapters that can be twisted to fit there doctrine.

If people would just read their Bibles and not listen to all the explanations that the WT puts out, they would find the truth. I think that is their fear in not wanting people to "study on their own" independently.

Love and hugs,

Velta

38

I left after 9 years ...

by sacolton in

jw
friends

i just disassociated myself after nine long years in the wtbts after researching the history of the wtbts and its founders and their lies, false prophecies and mind-control doctrines.

read my profile for more about that.

anyway, i'm glad there is a wonderful support group for those who have escaped the grasp of the wtbts and enjoy life again without the constant fear that the wtbts instills at every meeting.

Eliveleth

sacolton,

Welcome to the board! Happy BirthdayThere are several people here who still believe in the God of the Bible and

who have made Jesus Lord of their lives. For me it is a great place to be. I am sorry that your

wife does not share your views. This can be very hard. I will be praying for her. I checked out your

profile .I think a lot of us who were gung ho JWs were sideswiped by their deception. It just takes seeing

a little chink in their armor to begin to investigate where they had lied in other places. One of the things that

I first had a problem with was their changing words in the Kingdom Interlinear. I was investigating the "great crowd" and when

I was researching "temple", I found discrepancies in how they translated it from the Greek. They say in the forward that they

are going to use "one English word for each Greek word". I found that to not be true. Also I found they added words to make

it sound as if it fitted their doctrine.

Love and hugs,

Velta

www.geocities.com/veliveleth

16

my family that are not even jws get annoyed about me coming on jwd

by looloo in

jw
friends

do any of you have this problem ?

my hub is disfellowshipped and not in the least bit interested in this site , which i find amazing considering everything that has happened , its not even a case of him being to scared to mix with apostates because he doesnt like jws and does not believe they have the truth , when i try to tell him anything , he tells me hes not interested, end of conversation .

there is so much i want to discuss with him (regarding the child abuse thing that has affected our lives ) do any of you identify with this ?

Eliveleth

My husband was disfellowshipped as "apostate" the same time I was, but he has taken a different route from the very

beginning. I started meeting with an interdenominational Christian womens group almost from the beginning, but he

wouldn't go to church or get involved in anything. After 10 years he started going to church with me and became a

pastor. He and I left the church (any church) last summer. He is not a computer guy and he is not too interested

in anything that is going on with the Watchtower.

Love and hugs,

Velta

58

NEW SCROLLS ANNOUNCED

by tula in

so that this will be no surprise to you, and so you will not be swayed in your firm stand of holy spirit truth, i give you this.. .

in the coming months expect to hear this in the kh and the mags..... "for those of you who have heard of the association of the wts and the un and have patiently and faithfully waited on jehovah, we can now tell you our reasons for doing this.

it has all been under the direction of the fds.. this library card was necessary because..... there are very old manuscripts that have never been deciphered and they have been housed within that library.. through much prayer and careful consideration, jah directed for our team of translators, which are the best and most accurate in the world, to be a part of this great uncovering of the new scrolls.".

Eliveleth

I can't see them giving up their "unique name" no matter what they find out. They will try

to hide this knowledge so they can continue to be Jehovah's Witnesses IMO

Love and hugs,

Velta

44

What are you eating right now?

by Bourne in

jw
friends

i just ate a bowl of cereal !

!

wow.......how exciting....... bourne.

Eliveleth

Crumpet,

Your meal sounds yummy.

Rekless - My kids call that "birdie in the nest",.

I am eating a chopped green salad with baby spinach, arugula, spring greens, chopped cabbage, green onions, broccoli, cilantro, kale with lemon juice and olive oil with shredded cheese and feta. It's one of those lean cuisines. hee hee not really.

Love and hugs,

Velta

22

Anti-Christ is NOT anti-religion

by tula in

we are headed toward a one world religion which is tolerant of any and all deities.. all religions in our modern day society have origins in babylon.

i hope to prove that in the course of this thread.. every religion and secret society operating under the guise of religious affiliation have triune deities.. the wts is no exception.

their triune is jehovah, the fds, and "the christ".. in recent literature, i have noticed that jesus has been demoted to simply a position, by calling him "the christ".

Eliveleth

Tula,

I am overwhelmed by all your research. I am a researcher myself, but you have done

so much!!

A while back, I began to see the tendency of some religions (denominations) to water

down their teachings to not be so different than the New Age religions. I think

this move to ecumenism (correct word?) is becoming the politically correct stance of many

religions. I believe we have to be tolerant of each others beliefs, but I do not believe

that God wants us to compromise who we are. While I still believe that there are many

Christians in the religious community, I am seeing a lot leave and just worship God apart

from religion.

Thank you for this research, I found it very interesting.

Love and hugs,

Velta