Honestly, what could really shake them?
For years they believed that the end would come in the generation of 1914. That was big. You could set a very tangible expectation of when the end would come. The adjustment of that teaching pretty much threw it all back in the faces of members that didn't marry, didn't get good jobs, didn't save for retirement etc. And yet the rank and file took this as exciting new news!
Yes the end it coming, but now we have absolutely no basis point anymore other than it is very close! In 20 years there will be a new part on the district convention saying that we are in the last milliseconds of the time of the end, and 50 years down the road we can be in the last nanoseconds.
They are being led by people that are themselves deluded into believing. They are experiencing a slow bleed as their death grip on information flow is weakening, but as long as people want to be told how to think they will be right there telling them how.
Paralipomenon
JoinedPosts by Paralipomenon
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28
What will Jehovah's Witnesses do when they realize they've been lied to
by cultswatter ini think there might be a mass revolt.
imagine a mob of 100,000 angry dubs in newyork smashing down wt 25 using telephone posts as battering rams.
then the looting and the destruction of every wt property in newyork and elsewhere.
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Paralipomenon
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Round 2 disastor
by thebiggestlie inround two with me and my parents went terrble last night.
my mother was sobbing and my dad had the biggext look of dissapointment on his face.
i couldn't think straight.
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Paralipomenon
Hey TBL, were your parents raised as witnesses?
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Building paradise
by Paralipomenon inokay we're all familiar with the watchtower's hope of a eternal life on a paradise earth.
i know as a witness i never gave it too much thought.
i thought of a park with a nice house and a large yard of nicely groomed grass.
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Paralipomenon
So you disagree with the governing body's stance that it will take 1000 years to clean up the earth? The creation book talks about how complex the earth's ecosystem is and that if it was out of balance life would fail. But that's all out the window in the paradise isn't it?
Why do all the houses in artist's renditions of the paradise have windows? They all have siding too. Things like that take a lumber mill.
What about homes made of wood? Will it never rot or decay?
Witnesses have a perfect utopia of a paradise but most think that they will be waited on hand and foot like rich masters.
Where is the bible reference for life in a paradise being an easy one?
Why does the society speculate on the time of the end, the fulfillment of prophecies but are strangely silent on the matter of what you will do with eternal life.
People are just trained not to think or ask questions about it.
The GB are very selective about what they talk about the paradise. I thought I'd have a bit of fun filling in the blanks where they refuse to address.
Honestly, you want to see an elder get a "divide by zero" mental error? Start asking paradise questions. For something that they intend to spend the rest of their life doing, they haven't given it much thought.
Less new light about channeling the spirits of dead people, more new light on toilets please. -
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Who wants to join the "Theocratic Ministry School" JWD style
by JH inhttp://www.tms2003.org/qstore.cgi.
yes, dear posters, learn how to start better threads, and express your ideas more clearly thanks to the jwd theocratic ministry school.. we would need an elder to guide us and be better, more efficient posters.. my time is up .
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Paralipomenon
TMS requires a license and registration (those in full time service may receive a key free of charge). We are happy to provide TMS software and would appreciate your support. Your support is necessary to defray costs related to development. We ask a modest $29 USD donation to help defray software related costs, server, and related expenses. (Trust me, there is no money to be “made” from the friends in this endeavor. And, “if” by some chance support money ever resulted in a “profit” it would go directly into the WWW contribution box).
There's some type of special person born every minute. Send me a dollar to find out what type of person I'm talking about. -
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Building paradise
by Paralipomenon inokay we're all familiar with the watchtower's hope of a eternal life on a paradise earth.
i know as a witness i never gave it too much thought.
i thought of a park with a nice house and a large yard of nicely groomed grass.
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Paralipomenon
Okay we're all familiar with the watchtower's hope of a eternal life on a paradise earth. I know as a Witness I never gave it too much thought. I thought of a park with a nice house and a large yard of nicely groomed grass.
Occasionally meeting with Moses or another historical figure of interest. But that was about it.
Since getting out, the more I thought about it, the less eternal life on a paradise earth sounds like a good idea. I thought it might be a fun Friday exercise to post all the things that would need to be handled to make such a utopia possible.
Imagine this, the world has just ended, and we're all there in the aftermath and wondering what to do next.
First off, the world is going to be a mess. Cities and mass industry lying in crumbles, millions of tons of concrete structures lie in a state of ruin.
Okay, first off we are going to need the basics, food and shelter.
Food is okay since we can just start with manna again. It's going to suck after a while eating the same thing day in and day out, but this is paradise! Whooo!
Okay for shelter we need to assign land and start building homes. Hmmm, do we hold a raffle? Draw lots? Large booming voice from heaven? Not sure.
Next you'd be wondering who all made it in. Let's check e-mail. whoops, regular mail? nope. Phone call? Nope. I guess I could drive over there... oh, no cars. Hmmm, anyone know how to ride a horse?
Now the Governing Body and all the remaining anointed were raptured up to heaven in Armageddon. Or were they to live our their lives on earth growing older as everyone else grew younger. I forget.
So things are getting back to the way it was intended in the garden of eden right? Perfect man and woman? Very cool. Remember when Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit and then realized they were naked? That means no more clothes! All those prudes against nudity are in for a great surprise.
"Hey Brother Russell, how's it hanging?"
This is going to be great.
Okay so we strip off our clothes, ride horses but still need to build our homes. Great, lets just head over to the Home Depot for supplies and, oh crap! Anyone here know how to make a hammer? Nails? A saw? Blacksmithing at all?
Oh wait, did Adam have a house in Eden? Wasn't mentioned. Looks like it's to the forest for us. A morning ritual will be picking Manna out of our various creases and orifices in the morning. But hey, we're in paradise!
After a few years the ecosystem is going to be completely out of wack. Someone else can do the math on how many rabbits and mice there would be without a natural predator. Since animals won't kill each other now that means a whole lot of dead rotting carcases lying around. Paradise is starting to smell a bit bad. Jehovah appoints an angel to start control the rabbit population. He is given the lofty title of "Master of Bunny Luv". On weekends he hangs out with the "Ministry of Rodent Affairs".
The angels are going to be delighted! Once they were locked in an epic battle of good over evil, now they can relax and try to stop animals from "doing the deed". An angelic spray bottle will do the trick no doubt. Fill that baby up with cold water and you're good to go for time indefinite. Who knows, maybe this job might be given to one of the lofty members of the 144,000?
Isn't this wonderful so far? Anyone else want to help build paradise with me? You'll get to see me naked! -
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Watchtower change on Wikipedia
by aniron incame across this on wikipedia, seems someone didn't waste any time.
beginning in 2008, the watchtower will have different focuses in the two issues that are published each month.
the issue published on the first of each month will focus on religious articles that will be offered to the general public.
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Paralipomenon
I think they would have better success if they took the Watchtower study out of the Sunday meeting. For people coming to their first meeting, the public talks can be interesting, then they get hammered with the WT study. Some of the topics I'm sure send more for the door than the literature counter.
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i'm still alive...
by thebiggestlie ini want to thank all of you for all your thoughtful pms.
i'll respond to them in time but can't at the moment.
i wanted to just check in and let you know that i'm doing relatively ok. the confrontation with my parents was a bit sticky.
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Paralipomenon
Ugh, conflicting emotions here.
Knowing the WTBTS is such a crock I sympathize with you. But they are your parents. They decide if you stay or go. Now different parents will put up with a different amount of rebelliousness. I have no idea how strict your parents are.
If your parents are the slightest bit reasonable you might be able to work out a compromise. Faith isn't something you can force on someone. It's just not possible.
The crusades were based on religion trying to force faith on the heathen masses. In the end people converted, not because they had faith, but because they were afraid of torture and death.
If your parents ask you to go to the hall, it's my personal feeling as a father that you should obey them. They are your parents even if they are misguided.
Were your parents raised Witnesses? If not, ask them if their parents were supportive of their conversion.
This is a nice point because either answer benefits your plight.
If they were supportive, ask them to be supportive of your decision as well.
If they were not supportive, ask them how that made them feel. Tell them that they are doing the same thing to you. Naturally the line they would most likely retort with is "But we have the truth". But didn't their parents think -they- had a truth as well?
While I think children should be respectful, you are almost an adult so they can't force how you react or think. If they force you to go in the door to door work and you don't have the faith to back it up, how good a witness will you really be giving? If a householder asks you if you personally believe it, should you lie? What is their motivation for this? Is it to avoid personal embarrassment?
So my advice is, if you stick around pretending to have faith only to leave when you move out, your parents may feel extremely used and may fortify in their minds how wicked children are that leave "God's Light". That might be a deciding factor in how open they are to the whole shunning process.
This advice is only based on if you have resonable parents, if you think your parents are completely unreasonable and blinded by the "Light" then I would agree with the above and just buckle down until you can move out on your own.
As a parent I would rather have my heart broken by honesty than deception, but again every child's relationship with their parents are unique. I wanted to give you a different perspective to consider. -
Jesus: Substitute ruler?
by Paralipomenon indredging into the dark memories of indoctrination i was curious about one particular teaching that i remember.
after armageddon jesus would sit on the throne of power for 1000 years.
after his millennial reign satan would be let lose to tempt god's servants once more.
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Paralipomenon
Dredging into the dark memories of indoctrination I was curious about one particular teaching that I remember.
After Armageddon Jesus would sit on the throne of power for 1000 years. After his millennial reign Satan would be let lose to tempt God's servants once more. It was taught that a great many would fall away, mainly those resurrected ones.
Then Satan would be cast off into everlasting destruction and Jesus would hand leadership of the kingdom over to Jehovah and God's people would live to time indefinite.
I pretty much just accepted this back then, but I have several questions about this teaching now.
1) is this even still taught? I remember all the pictures in the revelation book with Jehovah as the king.
2) if people could fall away in Eden, and in paradise, couldn't they fall away after 1000 years as well?
3) how would people be handled after 1000 years? The cliche thunderbolt? Wipe them from existence? Let the birds eat meat again?
4) During the 1000 years would we pray to Jesus?
5) If not, what is the purpose of sitting on the throne of power?
6) If yes, where is Jehovah during this time? Is he a councilor? Co-rulers?
7) How long would Satan have to tempt people?
8) If you are Satan and you know your executioner is just using you to test his people, why would you comply?
I remember this being a very major teaching when I was young but in later years they hardly discussed it at all. I guess people didn't like the idea of dying after they were perfect.
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I FEEL YOUR PAIN!
by spidey9322 inmuch to my surprise when i found this site...i noticed that many have experienced the same typr of humiliation, asn despaid as i have throughout my 36 years on this earth.
in reading some of these stories (even after being out of the truth) for over 20 years...it still brings chills to my spine about how i was treated.
where do i begin?
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Paralipomenon
Welcome to the site.
When I hear stories like your own I am just shocked. There are so many people that were physically and mentally abused by their parents for not measuring up adult standards as set out by the organization.
I'm glad you were able to come out on top though. -
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Paralipomenon
"I find your lack of text... disturbing" - D.V.