May be I don't understand the OP, exWTslave.
Are you proposing that the reasons we are loving, ethical, sympathetic are not important as long as actually we are these things with other people?
humbled
JoinedPosts by humbled
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13
One Can Be Spiritual With or Without Religions!
by exWTslave inbehind all the details in the bible lies the absolute truth: love is the true religion.
(james 1:27) [conversely, self-serving is false religion.colossians 3:5] that means god is not a factor in the true worship.
(habakkuk 2:4) his attitude is that if you are good, it is good for you; and if you do bad, it is bad for you.
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One Can Be Spiritual With or Without Religions!
by exWTslave inbehind all the details in the bible lies the absolute truth: love is the true religion.
(james 1:27) [conversely, self-serving is false religion.colossians 3:5] that means god is not a factor in the true worship.
(habakkuk 2:4) his attitude is that if you are good, it is good for you; and if you do bad, it is bad for you.
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humbled
How we come to the realization that actions(love) speak louder than words(religion) is not materially important, is it?
Some of us were so burned by the WT that only science is allowed to instruct us.
But science is not universally available, is it? "..And the good news is preached to the poor..." has been the force that has imbued the uneducated to rise to love when other avenues of enlightenment are closed off.
Whether science explains it or whether the matter is discerned by distilling Jesus' message--why one side should be dismissive of the other?
Results matter.
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Today I Da'd -Twenty-five years ago. Regrets -some.
by Xanthippe inyes twenty-five years ago today we sent in our da letter.
some regrets, not about leaving the cult obviously, but sometimes when i read about people slowly fading and keeping in touch with family and friends i wonder if we should have done that.
of course it was before the internet in 1989 so we didn't know about people fading.. one day we were driving along and we had been talking about moving congregations because we knew something was wrong but of course we thought it was local.
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humbled
Xan,
I admire your straight-ahead manner. Even honest about regret.
I don't have family hostage. But when I was struggling with the WT I was too overwhelmed at what was taking place to imagine an exit that entailed more than shutting a door and not looking back.
I wish I had a strategy by which to talk to others about why I got out. I had 3 dear friends that i will always miss. O well.
I am glad you hatched one out when you left!
Take care,
Maeve
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New TV Reality Show Wed Night "Amish Mafia", perfect conversation starter for JWs and Cult members.
by Balaamsass inanother reality tv show on the amish this week in the us.
great for laughs (laughter is the best medicine) and possibly a good conversation starter for members who have jws in the family circle.
nothing like the absurd about tribes and cults to jog the brain.. the link:http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/amish-mafia.
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humbled
The Amish north of us in around Seymour and Springfield, Missouri have some latitudes in their religion that witnesses do not. I won't pretend to know all about them, but we have dealt with them for horse equipment and around horse sales. There are those sort of renegade Amish you talk about who live on the fringe--but I do not know how they relate to the larger 'regular' community.....
One non-Amish at a horse sale commented " They(the Amish) don't really care how you and and I do. They're just out for themselves."
One man's words, that. But any group that is so insular, like the JWs, may tend to be that way about the "English", the "worldly people".
There isn't any way to know what's true in that TV show, I guess. But it's not a documentary--and somebody is making a buck off of it.
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How many in the cong visited you when you started fading
by joe134cd ini'm just curious speaking from a person who has stopped going to meetings.
i have heard reports from inactive ones (or from ones who the elders suspect of going to the dark side) of having so many visits from elders (cong members) that it got to the point of harassment.
surprisingly i have to say from personal experience and from numerous others that i have spoken to that the exact opposite has been the case.
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humbled
I had an 9 month absence from meetings before I DA'd. I had visits from elders and friends. One visit was in my home from the elders in my congregation. an elder from an old congregation called on me with grave concern for me (a really good guy). Five sisters called on me at different times. I didn't accept phone calls from others as I was really feeling some trauma after awhile.
Once I was out, no one called. I was announced in the winter of 2010. It seems longer ago than that.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Say They Are The Most Educated In The World. How Would You Prove Otherwise?
by minimus inthey claim their schools, literature and teaching are far more superior than any "worldly" education.
how would you counter that belief?.
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humbled
Nugget said it. "The ability to challenge and investigate information" is the sine qua non of an educated person. Even those who graduate college/university may not rise to it if all they do is receive information.
Thus there is no amount of information that the WTBTS can force through its followers that can educate them BECAUSE is does not allow for independent thought. Certainly it does not encourage questions. In fact, the WTBTS stamps out discourages "unauthorized"study groups that might vere of into the danger zones that await the accidental thinker.
One reason this site exists is because any investigation and challenge to Brooklyn teaching or literature will get you expelled from the Organization's school with a big fat scarlet "A"-------
Apostate.
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HAPPY WEDDING ANNIVERSARY MR & MRS SMIDDY
by smiddy in53 years ago we got married in a kh by a bro.
about 20 years ago my wife and i, and two children left the cult , and have never been happier .. wifey was happy with the flowers i gave her and this evening we will go for a quiet dinner at a restuarant with a bottle or two of champers and if i`m lucky i may even get desserts , or not.. smiddy.
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humbled
Now, THERE'S an accomplishment! Married that long and CELEBRATING IT!
Congratulations, the both of you!
Maeve
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The Elders Returned, as Promised!
by exWTslave inwonderful love!.
wonderful love!.
wonderful love!.
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humbled
What a straight, clear and unpredictable reception they walked into. So good that your little girl knows that love is the core of life.
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How do JWs Not see how barbaric YHWH is? Its what started my awakening.
by BU2B inif one reads genesis from the first chapter through the end with an open mind, it is clear that not only is it not true, but that god is potrayed as a cruel, petty, childish micromanaging tyrant.
if one continues reading the ot this is just further solidified.
how do jws not see the obvious?
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humbled
suavojr, Good observations from a 10 year old--Children can be so clear-thinking..
And the Genesis 22 account? While I was struggling with the problem of the god of love in the OT, I knew that words were important. And that the words of Genesis 22 were peculiar.
I had as my personal background 1) a Latin teacher in high school that made us discover words derived from latin. This made me mindful of clues and odd turns in language, communication and the evolution of word meaning. 2)because I ended up living in a less "civilized" manner and sometimes living and worshipping with people who had ideas of God as rough as Abraham, I had to wonder how ideas of God grew among people--I asked the brothers during my inquisition 'Who invents words, brothers?" "We humans do". "So how does God talk to us about ways that are higher than our ways?" Also: "Do you know how God "spoke" to Abraham?"
I will not defend the existence of god, but it is true that the scholarship allowing for a variance on the horrific Abraham/Isaac account is sound.
What I sent to the Society was reasoned and researched. (I have the full exchange of letters on an old thread on JWN). Though they found nothing objectionable in it, even concurred with the points. But ultimately, though there was every good reason not to interpret God as a freaky sadist, they would not allow for anything less than a twisted God. I pointed out that there was more reason to embrace ambiguity than the certainty they had chosen.
And to the charge from the local brothers that I had my own interpretation I pointed out that, no, their insistence on ignoring a word in all ways foreign to blood and blade--THAT was an interpretation. "Do not go beyond the things written" only applied to the WTBTS writings--not the bible. They were comfortable with their hideous interpretation for children.
It took 3 months for the Corporation to deal with me. I was to be quiet and lump it.
They LOVE the monster they've created.
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How do JWs Not see how barbaric YHWH is? Its what started my awakening.
by BU2B inif one reads genesis from the first chapter through the end with an open mind, it is clear that not only is it not true, but that god is potrayed as a cruel, petty, childish micromanaging tyrant.
if one continues reading the ot this is just further solidified.
how do jws not see the obvious?
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humbled
I had a hard time with Jehovah's psychotic schizophenia. Sometimes his forebearance was amazing (the end of the book of Jonah "ought I not to feel sorry for Nineveh the great city?") OMG! These Assyrians used to skin alive their captives!
On the other hand, it is hard to grasp where mercy and justice stands with Jehovah as He allows faithful Uriah to be first cuckolded then murdered without so much as a blink of his eye (unless you consider the killing of David's woods colt as balancing the ledger).
But the most disturbing account of all is that of Abraham and Isaac at Genesis 22. That is what got me out of the religion.
I finally "outed" myself to the local brothers because there is latitude to understand the story as a moment where human language had no way to describe God's high-minded ways. In fact, if indeed the words of the bible had been "sacrifice" Isaac, I told the brothers then indeed Jehovah was a sly and cruel manipulator. A monster.
That there was the word "burnt offering" which offered a connotation more spiritual and not specifically deadly as the word for "sacrifice" was hopeful for me. I certainly hoped it would be for others who were troubled by God's allowing himself to 1) lie 2)use evil to test a human 3)seem to approve what he abhorred.
The upshot of the matter: JWs are content to have Jehovah be a son-of-a-bitch in their literature and teaching. My observation that such a twisted representation of the God of love was a hard sell---yet the Genesis 22 story is central to Judeo/Christian teaching.
As much as anything, I could not anymore stay in a group of people who were slavishly attached to My Book of Bible Stories. The Society actually wrote me that they were concerned to say that Abraham was told to kill Isaac before he burnt him so that children didn't think Jehovah had asked Abe to do what the terrible pagan Canaanites did by burning children alive to their evil gods.
Sick! Sick! SICK!!!!!