Posts by humbled

20

Islam's Psychotic Obsession With Hell

by cofty in

every word this man preaches is official muslim doctrine.. fear of hellfire is central to the life of every muslim.

it is axiomatic that every non-muslim, all kaffir like you and i will spend eternity in hell.. just like roman catholicism and evangelical christianity it is a cult of fear and of death.

unlike christian writers mo was not coy about describing the details of hellfire.. i have just finished reading two autobiographies by ayaan hirsi ali who is a muslim "apostate" and lives under a death threat.

humbled

cofty,

It is this not being allowed to contemplate the "nice parts" as being at cross purposes that is an avenue of conversation. That is why I want to see the contents of the Quran for myself.

In another thread that is concerned with the Bible, the title is concerned with the idea of a perfect canon (!), and presumably a perfect translation, that would lead to a perfect practice of a religion--the OP's concern not to follow the "opinions of men". But isn't there always the prism of the mind that renders everything--including a religious text-- as one person's own opinion? If that person is ever is brave enough, deperate enough or feels obligated enough by faith can't they and haven't some broken away from the mind control of religious tyrants.

This forum is full of such ones, isn't it? Informed discussion and the highlighting of the niceparts vs. the monstrous ones is our job. Tedious, slow and necessary.

20

Islam's Psychotic Obsession With Hell

by cofty in

every word this man preaches is official muslim doctrine.. fear of hellfire is central to the life of every muslim.

it is axiomatic that every non-muslim, all kaffir like you and i will spend eternity in hell.. just like roman catholicism and evangelical christianity it is a cult of fear and of death.

unlike christian writers mo was not coy about describing the details of hellfire.. i have just finished reading two autobiographies by ayaan hirsi ali who is a muslim "apostate" and lives under a death threat.

humbled

NewHope,

I am not sure I catch your meaning--maybe I wasn't clear in my post either.

I have no obligations to the backward, demeaning abuses of any "holy" writings--but I have only read bits and pieces of the Quran. And, though I have listened to or read the understanding of others who are Muslim, I cannot be satisfied by that alone. To engage in meaningful conversation on Islam and the actons of Muslims I want to know the contents of the Quran myself.

The bible was absolutely as demeaning to women(especially the OT) as in the parts of the Quran that I have read. Since I take seriously the threat of the violence and abuses from Islamist, I will do my part in fighting that violence by arming myself with knowledge from many sources--including the reading the Quran for myself.

20

Islam's Psychotic Obsession With Hell

by cofty in

every word this man preaches is official muslim doctrine.. fear of hellfire is central to the life of every muslim.

it is axiomatic that every non-muslim, all kaffir like you and i will spend eternity in hell.. just like roman catholicism and evangelical christianity it is a cult of fear and of death.

unlike christian writers mo was not coy about describing the details of hellfire.. i have just finished reading two autobiographies by ayaan hirsi ali who is a muslim "apostate" and lives under a death threat.

humbled

Fascinating that he knows so much about every aspect of hell. Creepy.

More on his background is discouraging. a Brit and a convert to Islam-- an ex-Catholic to boot--he is wretchedly backward yet so certain he is doing God's will--two wives, believes in all the worst things that have been said of Islamists.

More on Ayaan Hirsi Ali's life, on the other hand, makes the role of education and opportunity clear for Muslims to move away from the dark verses of the Quran.

And Ayaan is an atheist now.

This is a educational post. Non-polarizing even though using the word "psychotic" in the title. The fellow IS psychotically obsessed with the topic.

My copy of the Quran has arrived in the mail. I am not looking forward to reading it as glancing through it I see that Mohammed is viewed with too much reverence for anyone's good.

57

Was the Biblical Canon Directed by God?

by Chris Tann in

this is a question a sincere christian may agonize over after learning that some books of the bible were rejected by certain early christian groups,while other books that did not make the canon were accepted.

also,when one realizes that so called inspired writers of the greek scriptures quote from apocrypha,that most christians reject today,one wonders if these writings that include these quotes should even be in the bible.. it is true that when it comes to the christian greek scriptures the canon has been closed for many centuries.

also, these books have been accepted by christians ever since the second,perhaps first,century.

humbled

Chris Tann,

It will always be a man's (or a woman's) opinion about God.

So what if you have a "true" canon, and a "true" translation--Who is there to tell you what it means?

A "true" interpretation is the next hurdle.

Tell me--How do you deal with the most stable of all the books of the bible--Genesis. And within that book the signature moment of Judaism, Christianity--even Islam: Genesis 22 the bloody scene where Abraham interprets God's desire for him to kill his son Isaac.

Can you believe this prevailing interpretation, namely this-- God shredded key teachings of His in order to test His friend's faith?

God doesn't lie

God doesn't test with evil

God calls human sacrifice evil

I call pull out the book, chapter and verse on these points but surely you know where to find them.

My point is this: we have to rely on the honesty and scholarship of others with the limitations of education and circumstance. We are only second hand believers. Others interpreted these stories for us--opinions all.

I interpreted the Genesis story differently and was kicked out of JW land. My view was that it is hard to understand God even if you are a friend of his.

Who are you going to believe, Chris Tann? In the end, if you decide you have the canon God wants you to have, you willstill only have the opinion of a man--yourself.

40

JW attitudes to women

by Frazzled UBM in

i would be very interested to hear from you ladies on this one.

i know that the society keeps women in subjugation through the headship cr@p but didn't ahve any sense about hoew prehistoric the attitudes are until the other day when we were driving out of the supermarket car park and my wife spotted a woman dressed in tight shorts (it has been very hot here) and she commented 'they say that women who dress like that dserve to be raped'.

i did a wtf and overreacted 'how can you blame the victim like that - such attitudes give men a lciense to commit rape and make women feel they are to balme if they get raped which in turn means that rape doesn't get reported and it gopes on with impunity.

humbled

The "transformation" referenced in that 1930 Golden Age might be a misappropriation of the eventual outcome of seeming female intersex persons born with indeterminant genitals. These individuals prove to be males when puberty resolves the physical confusion.

But condition this does not resolve the idiocy of the WT comments.

33

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

by Gnostic Bishop in

have you investigated gnostic christianity?.

the gnostic wing of christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to christianity and catholicism.

if the old gnostic christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original orthodox catholic church or its various offshoots in protestantism and islam.

humbled

I have read gnostic gospels.

Really, they have bishops? Overseers?

Hierarchies? Gnostic texts endorse this?

3

Interesting Iraqi Humor

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.latimes.com/world/great-reads/la-fg-c1-iraq-isis-tv-comedy-20141029-story.html#page=1.

crude and anti-semitic admittedly but effective.

if the muslim world can get away with lampooning these murderers, then it is a positive thing.

humbled

Ditto, Phizzy

and thanks, metatron for posting this--absolutely the best thing I have heard or seen to make hope rise for savvy, humane and brave in Muslims everywhere.

If Jon Stuart had produced this, it would never have had the potent effect as these guys can and have had. Stuart is in the U.S. and he is Jewish-- and this would have automatically discounted the impact. Not that Stuart wouldn't have included any allusion to Israeli political factors in the active ingredients that are stirring radical Islamic ideology--if the cutting wit of these comics cannot use all the truth to atack extremists then they are not credible even to myself---a western non-Muslim.

Brave brave brave.

I do believe that humor that is truthful is the most powerful force we have to infiltrate, warm and strengthen fear frozen minds.

51

New ExJW here for the first time.

by WideAwake7 in

i am here for the first time ...but have enjoyed reading others experiences that i feel i can relate too.

i used to be an elder for more than 20 years .

i have successfully faded with my wife and children.

humbled

Well, hello, WideAwake7.

Others may know what to expect--but the scenario you describe for this wedding is nothing I've dealt with-

Good work on your family fade!

59

My Relief

by Smart in

what a massive relief!

thank god i have just found this site the other day!

i don't know where to begin!

humbled

As for your identity--People here are respectful of your privacy. If you have nothing to lose as far as the JWs are concerned-- let 'er rip! But I find that though I have nobody in the Org. of my family, sometimes I converse on a thread that covers sensitive matters and then I have wished I had anonymity. Just my thoughts.

But this forum addresses issues of persons touched by the JW Org. You should be here.

Share carefully, thoughtfully, for your own sake. But welcome, smart. Welcome.

Maeve--whose Grandma Beatrice (nee Jones) was half Welsh

24

The Witness beliefs remind me of the Nazis and ISIS

by NAVYTOWN in

jw
friends

the nazi regime hated jews, gays, jws and other minorities.

so they solved the 'problem' by exterminating them.

the current isis group hates jews and christians and beheads those it considers 'enemies' and 'infidels'.

humbled

Would a JW kill if God demanded it?

The WT literature claims that God will do whatever he wants and it is alright if he has a change of his mind.

---They say it was fine for God to tell Abraham to kill his own son.

And Abraham was exemplary for trying to do it.