Posts by humbled

64

one last step..Is being mentally out the same as being emotionally out?

by MissFit in

jw
friends

we talk here about the importance of being mentally and physically out to be really free.. what about being emotionally free?.

i realized for me, i had to be emotionally awake first.

i had been yo-young back and forth for years.

humbled

I was an adult who was a serious Christian and accepted a free home bible study.

22 years later I got into trouble when I let the elders know of a recurring problem I had with something that always came up in the literature. I was a good little witness who had weathered other storms (One involved intervention from Bethel with a CO who had bungled a situation so badly i almost left over it). So the elders worked on me over the next several months while I waited for my letter to Bethel to get processsed by Holy Spirit. But it was the way the elders spoke and showed how afraid they were to read and think for themselves--they were even afraid to use their own bibles with me. This showed me how frightened everyone was of being "apostate". Even the brother who was a close family friend and normally brave in standing up for decent and reasonable--even loving behavior--even he was afraid. Fear was every where: my friends couldn't talk, I couldn't talk and the elders wouldn't talk-- just had a script to follow.

I couldn't believe "truth" could be like this.

The thing took about 9 months. I was a basket case. I barely could go to work. I stopped going to meetings while Bethel worked on its long answer to me. I had to wonder all the time if I was an evil trouble maker. But I didn't talk to any one to say what was happening so --I wasn't making trouble that way.

At the end I realized the Corporation was just a Big Business and didn't care about folks like me, or the Truth, or Jehovah--nothing. It was all flim-flam. They only cared about the Corporation. It was the most disgusted I have ever been in my life. I had gone along with it, too --not just religion--but that religion.

So leaving mentally and emotionally was altogether for me. I was glad I found JWN during the last months while I waited for the announcement to be made "Maeve is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses". I posted the news on JWN and went down to a bar and bought myself a beer.

3

Bart Ehrman's Favorite Bible Film--made in Canada

by humbled in

jw
friends

i heard an interview with him once when he was asked did he have a favorite bible-themed film.

he said yes-- jesus of montreal.. "when attendence at a church's annual passion play flags, a troupe of young actors is hired to stage a newer interpretation of the teachings of jesus.

while their newer, more modern version brings the house down, it also brings down the condemnation of church hierarchy, creating a strange parallel between the actors--now persecuted believers--and the authorities.

humbled

BOTR,

From the unwashed,illiterate and unshriven backwaters of the universe I have noticed that a university experience expands the world of knowledge but doesn't teach those who achieve such privilege how NOT to be rude and supercilious when it is least called for. That is learned elsewhere.

When are you going to learn this lesson?

Of the authors whose writings I have read--and they are many---it happens that only Bart Ehrman was asked the question that gave rise to my recommendation of Jesus of Montreal. This innocent bit of trivia was offered as I found it somewhat of a novelty that Bart Ehrman would have selected this particular film.

A fair question from you might have been"Why?" Then I might have answered you thus:

An esteemed (by some)academic who began his career as an evangelical Christian, he is now an agnostic. Now, you do know he didn't write the script--but since his criticisms of biblical texts are well known on the board, it was interesting to view the texture this provided as I watched the film--and maybe will for others. The writer/director, Arcand presented it a thought-provoking and surprising way,possibilities not simply of the historical material of Jesus' existence but of the value of some of the teachings quite apart from the dogma of orthodoxy. It was a drama within a drama within a drama.

Again, I was/am curious about how such a seeker as Ehrman would name this film. I would be likewise curious of other writers' film favorites. But no one has spoken up. For this I get your curled lip and the imputation that I and others on the board read no one but Bart Ehrman? And in case I miss your disdain, you add "I suppose there is no accounting for taste."

I would be pleased to provide you with my reading list if that would exculpate me from your snide suggestion no one on the board reads anything but Ehrman.

Band-o,we each live in the center of our life's drama. But even if we feel that we deserve top billing for our knowledge and erudition and our pain and the breadth of our experience, the fact is we DO share the stage with others more or less who also have something to add to the community. It would be crass for me not to say that the board is enriched by what you provide when you are not speaking in a high-handed way.

-- But this time I am telling you to back off of my small post. This post simply invites others to see a movie. Just- see- a -movie. Because I want you also to imagine that even the bit players here should be treated with more respect from you.

Maeve

7

Did God really test Adam and Eve, and Abraham?

by Kalos in

god does not test anyone.

(james 1:14) hence any account claiming god as testing man (perfect or imperfect) will betray the signs of mans (not gods) thought!.

1) god asking adam not to eat of a particular fruit-bearing tree defies all logic as any fruit-bearing tree is a symbol of goodnessproducing nutritious food (not for themselves) for others; thus doing good for the sake of goodness, which is the very core-attribute of god himself (mathew 5:44-47; mark 10:18) hence eating [the principle] of a fruit-bearing tree would only make man like godsomething jesus himself commanded everyone to do!!!.

humbled

My Book of Bible Stories says God tested Abraham by asking him to kill and burn Isaac. That child's book has God using the evil of human sacrifice to test Abraham. The Greek and the Hebrew all add up to the same meaning for test or tempt.

Flat contradiction here about God and temptation. kalos has it right. Read the opening post.

3

Bart Ehrman's Favorite Bible Film--made in Canada

by humbled in

jw
friends

i heard an interview with him once when he was asked did he have a favorite bible-themed film.

he said yes-- jesus of montreal.. "when attendence at a church's annual passion play flags, a troupe of young actors is hired to stage a newer interpretation of the teachings of jesus.

while their newer, more modern version brings the house down, it also brings down the condemnation of church hierarchy, creating a strange parallel between the actors--now persecuted believers--and the authorities.

humbled

I heard an interview with him once when he was asked did he have a favorite Bible-themed film. He said yes-- Jesus of Montreal.

"When attendence at a church's annual Passion Play flags, a troupe of young actors is hired to stage a newer interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. While their newer, more modern version brings the house down, it also brings down the condemnation of church hierarchy, creating a strange parallel between the actors--now persecuted believers--and the authorities. But the actor. who is beginning to feel at peace with the character he plays (Christ), insists that the show will go on...no matter what happens to him in the process." 1989 written and directed by Denys Arcand

I watched it last month. It was great. that's why I'm recommending it to anybody regardless of your creeds. It's a good film.

When I get back from my hiatus, maybe some will have looked it up--I might get to know how you liked it.

Maeve

7

Did God really test Adam and Eve, and Abraham?

by Kalos in

god does not test anyone.

(james 1:14) hence any account claiming god as testing man (perfect or imperfect) will betray the signs of mans (not gods) thought!.

1) god asking adam not to eat of a particular fruit-bearing tree defies all logic as any fruit-bearing tree is a symbol of goodnessproducing nutritious food (not for themselves) for others; thus doing good for the sake of goodness, which is the very core-attribute of god himself (mathew 5:44-47; mark 10:18) hence eating [the principle] of a fruit-bearing tree would only make man like godsomething jesus himself commanded everyone to do!!!.

humbled

Aye, prologos, well said of trees.

11

You know what I hate?

by sparrowdown in

jw
friends

how jws bend over backwards pretending to be super nice,.

super caring, super open minded and reasonable to strangers.

at the door, strangers at the supermarket, or on tv drumming up publicity for.

humbled

I hear you.

No one is supposed to talk to me but the chance to lob a zinger at an apostate was just too much for an old friend/sister. When he saw me at the Farmers Market she came up and said

" What is WRONG with you? What is WRONG with you?"

I barely had time to say the word "Nothing." Because she was gone. Just like that.

I do hate it.

6

Was Jesus fully Human? How babies were made in those days.

by fulltimestudent in

i feel confident that most visitors to this site, understand the essential conflict at the heart of christianity.

how could jesus be fully human and simultaneously be a divine being who descended (supposedly, some thing jesus specifically claimed to be) from heaven.. as jws we may have solved this tricky point by saying that yahweh transferred the life of jesus into mary's womb, and so jesus was born fully human.. but if we remove the blindfold of faith, we immediately 'see' the problem.

in our contemporary view of the reproductive process, we can be certain that there is a female 'egg,' that is fertilised by male sperm.

humbled

Thanks for the background on this--I never thought about this bit.

It does remind me of the other equation they could not make add up properly--the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

You know, that doesn't refer to her being made pregnant by the Holy Spirit--It is derived from the ancient and popular idea that Mary was conceived without sin thus making her a fitting receptacle for Jesus. "Holy Mary, Mother of God" as the catholics say.

It gave St Thomas Aquinas fits though--because if God could "cure" original sin so easily--which nullified the need for a blood ransom--then Mary had no need of Savior (and no one else would need saving if God could do this little parlor trick)

Quite the theological mess, and Thom had to solve it since the Pope declared it true. The only remedy he could come up with was that however her mum n dad did "it", she just for one unholy second was she a sinner--then BLAM!--cured! Immaculate conception.

Stupid.

43

My Muslim friend's and the Koran.

by new hope and happiness in

in another thread i raised the point " there are moderate muslims but their is no moderate islam".

now i must face the fact i have muslim friends who say they believe the koran.. well i have asked these muslim friends, if they have investigated the origins of the koran.

they have answerd " yes".

humbled

Let's keep the thread alive.

But here was a very narrow path this thread is running on. We already have been through hot forum battles-over-Islam sparked by the recent beheadings and the solders killed in Canada.

Now this thread deals with the practical concern of how free are our friends who are Muslim of the violent influence of the dark verses of the Quran. and will this make ourselves and our children a mark for violence if we are non-muslim and speak out in against repressive practices and violence in the name of God.

It is a difficult thing to establish a thread and maintain dialogue instead of diatribes.

We all know that there is a problem with violent and misogynist horrible behavior that for whatever reason has risen out of the Quran. I like this thread for the possibilities it offered of assessing ways for ordinary communities and individuals to deal with Muslim neighbors...

If we can't manage our conversation so that we aren't constantly polarizing every fraction of discussion, then we will get no where.

Let's continue....

43

My Muslim friend's and the Koran.

by new hope and happiness in

in another thread i raised the point " there are moderate muslims but their is no moderate islam".

now i must face the fact i have muslim friends who say they believe the koran.. well i have asked these muslim friends, if they have investigated the origins of the koran.

they have answerd " yes".

humbled

SOP,

I do agree in principle with you. But I know that Muslims currently are troubled by some of the attitudes that waft their way due to the actions of fellow Muslims. The 9/11 attack was a life changer for many Muslims even here in Arkansas.

If the Quran has mandates for rotten treatment of sinners and nonmuslims--violent repression etc. then it might be enlightened self interest and not a terrible thing for our Muslim friends to find non-threatening entry to topic that allow discussion.

You know, if Muslims are too afraid or are simply oblivious, they will not engage. But TTATT was relevant for you and me--so it may be for them.

We do not have to assault their religion--but it may be comforting to examine the various reasons we left the WTBTS --one reason being that we now can associate with Muslims without trying to convert them!

20

Help

by Horseygirl12 in

jw
friends

im so frustrated i could kill myself right now!!

im 15 and a couple weeks ago i confessed to my parents that i didn't want to be a jehovahs witness anymore and also that i was bisexual.

i had just gotten back from an eating disorder clinic and my parents decided to put me back in school (i was homeschooling before).

humbled

They need to get educated about sexual identity issues.

If they think it is all a choice, they'll be on your back FOREVER! The first thing they have to accept is that this is rarely a choice. Next they need to ask themselves "Where does this come from?" Chances are they don't think Jah sent it. They won't concede that it was a natural event(doesn't happen on Jah's watch, Lol?)

I'd work hard on them letting you go to public school. Pull yourself together, don't dodge down the street to your friends who are non-witnes/lesbian/bisexual every moment you are free. Get out with a whole range of people. You'll find others of your own sort there. But get out into public school. It will be an easier battle to win --perhaps. Work with what you've got.

and good luck.