a newly published article by british sociologist david voas argues jehovah's witnesses may be about to experience a collapse in numbers.
contrary to claims by american sociologist rodney stark who predicts strong future growth for jehovah's witnesses, voas shows that jehovah's witnesses' efforts at recruiting new members have become increasingly unsuccessful over the past few decades: the rate of increase has steadily declined, and the number of hours each publisher must preach to produce an extra convert has gone up substantially.
voas suggests a reason for the stagnation may be that there is a natural limit to the number of people in a given population that are susceptible to conversion to sectarian groups like jehovah's witnesses - the 'carrying capacity' of the population, and that the limit has largely been reached.
The word “collapse” is a very loaded and inexact word - more suited to bee colonies and the longevity of historic buildings than adherents of organised religion.
Thanks for that chuckle, steve2. Some day this pot will boil but l’ll be damned if l will look in old WTyearbooks to audit their accounts.
Ha! Bee colonies..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8etv2mzhuy.
I hear you Brokeback.
Campaign finance reform for a start. Corporations own the candidates.
Individuals who stay won’t be bought can file and run for office but cannot compete without money.
Thanks for the video.
one of the most vexing matters confronting us as christians has to do with the apparent lack of honesty of so-called "christian" teachers on the many issues they frequently talk about.
this should not be shocking to us since scripture tells us that "everyone has sinned.
" (rom.
The fact is that the knowledge we currently have is partial. No one knows everything.
Dear Wonderment,
That statement cuts us loose from the tyranny of religion with its “accurate knowledge”. Bible study is a deep dirty rabbit hole that generations of rabbits have dug. Was there an original excavation? How to know? To follow our own inclinations is all we can do. There can be no leaders. The scripture Matt. 23:10 “Nor are you to be called ‘teacher’, for you have one teacher, the Christ.”
If that scripture is to be believed.
After all the time l have been told contrary things by this one or that of ancient writings and various translations and traditional interpretations l am fed full of the unsolvable. All this telling me what Jesus said? It all begins to dissolve into laughter: Don’t listen to anyone, said the Christ. And how do we know he said this?
Don’t listen to anyone.
so, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.
this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.
i love this guy.
Thanks for the response. I do hope you know I’m not hating on this guy. It’s just that there is a problem that staying in a position of power helps create degrees of difficulty for others. And yes he is abused also.
I appreciate your illustration Comparing him to an abused woman with children. There certainly are no-win aspects to the scenario though. Believing there is easy out She may try to shelter and quietly teach a better way but as time goes on the children will grow they will be formed in a conflicted environment. When the day comes that she sees the sons and daughters become dismissive of her for being neither this nor that, perhaps abusive as the father had been, or just sad and confused, daughters angry at her indecisiveness then you wonder.. there will be injury anyway you cut it but... Being honest has its own power. The truth can make you brave. It is messy to be sure, painful too. But it seems to me in both instances there will be pain and a mess ...just one that is deferred.
Not hating on the guy. Nor on the woman.
so, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.
this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.
i love this guy.
You have gently rapped my knuckles,Dub. And l will take it with this thought: the fear we lived with about reading anything outside was substantial. I am glad he has mercy on fellow sinners but that is not the same as letting his fellow believers know it is alright to let your mind examine other things.
Of course l want the guy to go on and his openness is rare. But he is a leader and mitigating the serious rot of this religion makes his wearing two-faces more a hypocracy than say, someone like Addison who is suffering a fade that is tearing her/him up. The 2-faced living that is entailed is painful and he/she is trying to be honest, is not in a position of power. Is not leading others astray.
I appreciate your pushback, Dub.
so, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.
this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.
i love this guy.
You've been able to pick and choose what aligns with your core values and what doesn't and created this hybrid JW culture for yourself. Obviously it goes against the direction of the faithful slave, and you have worked that out somehow internally to be consistent with who you are. —Dubstepped talking to the liberal elder
You remark here on the fellow ‘s freedom in playing fast and loose with the Truth— thing none of us were allowed to do—hell, l read that they don’t even let others gently fade! Like the messed up way they treat Stuckinarut and Unstuck. Others took the Bible seriously had questions and were shut out. I can’t applaude the guy. l just see him as unprincipled-kind of stealing a ride.
Well, it all comes down to one thing: Either "The Truth" is True, or it is not.
Also, if he REALLY values Truth and Honesty, he wouldn't be able to stay in the Organization!—stuckinarut
This isn’t sour grapes— l just think this liberal elder should lend his Crisis of Conscience to other thoughtful JWs and have a book club of outside readings. Then l would be impressed.
my wife and i have been long time lurkers here and are now members .
we were wondering if anyone is aware of any groups or individuals that meet periodically within ( or a short drive from ) connecticut ?
we aren't looking to bash the past ... just to connect with others who understand and move on .
There was one that met in NYC earlier this year. A train ride away?
The thread was up around ?March?
it’s quite affirming to see the horrific material that they’re serving up at the convention this year.
aside from blatant homophobia, the scenes at the end of the convention that are discussed on another thread stoop to new levels of fear mongering.
it seems to occur to nobody inside the organisation that this kind of material could trigger fear, deprsssion, anxiety, stress.
BoC— right on! This is such a powerful propaganda piece. It sets the trigger button ride up there for the Hitllers/the governing body to brush gently and explode people’s fear centers.
Even using that hokey illustration from the book of Bible stories with Jesus on the Whitehorse and all their armies of heaven behind him—they make it work.When I think how quiet and ordinary -real -the rest of it was portrayed until that fantastical scene when Jesus comes and draws his bow. Mind blowing
This
is diabolical.
well, as you all know, my wife (unstuck) and i are not df or da.. we just stopped attending several years back after my "apostate" online activity was found by a nosey employee of ours while she was working in our office (long story if anyone wants to know - it would have to be another thread).
we never met with any elders - no congregation judicial activity occurred (as we would never consent to do so anyway).
so our policy has been to be the same kind, loving, normal people we have always been.
People who are kind and good to others deserve social torture and death for rejecting the Truth.
I remember this teaching. It was the core of JW identity. Is why we were sent out to preach even if it took money we didn’t have any time away from our families from our mental health. “ Lives are at stake!”
I read the whole thread it really struck me —for you guys, it looks like the jig is up. If I understand it they have discovered that you’ve been “out” for a while but you have nevertheless maintained a very warm connection with them. And that is terrifying to them.
PaleEmporer mentioned cognitive dissonance as the force behind the hate. That is right. You guys have come too close to their hearts. Death death death!
It is breathtaking.
But you guys sound like you are in good shape. Glad you are going to just move on.
so, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.
this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.
i love this guy.
This has been a fascinating read. Your thoughts and then his remarks.
This JW elder operates with uncharacteristic mercy but must not have had to pass judgement on a person who has read the same “apostate” books he has opened?
Would he cast stones at a man or a woman who was caught writing what Dub wrote?
When you see a group of elders become a dark mass when WT teachings are questioned you have to wonder would this elder would stand up, stand apart from the execution squad ?
l had an elder who said he took to heart the admonition to “have the mind of Christ”. But in the end l would say he was a coward when l was in trouble.
After all, this guy?—he is hiding now just to talk to Dub.
