Posts by fifi40

89

IDENTITY=Behavior There are no CAUSELESS crimes or innocent evils

by Terry in

we often hear it said: love the sinner, but; hate the sin.. we try and reform the child molester.

we put career criminals through rehabiliation.

we let the drunk driver off with a fine and a warning over and over until an innocent family is wiped out.. why separate the deed from the doer?

fifi40

Terry

Whilst your restraint toward this individual is commendable, if you had 'beat the crap' out of him it wouldnt alter what people thought of you. Would you consider yourself a 'lesser' person, one not measuring up to his best, for having defended your own body. Would you consider others who did retaliate a lesser person than yourself, or as not having measured up to their best?

Yesterday you described my question as 'pure freud'............I have my own thoughts on why you did that............but I have to disagree with your description................Freud was psychodynamic theorist................I think my leaning (limited as it is) is toward behavioral theories which suggest that personality is a result of interaction between the individual and the enviroment.

To dismiss that enviroment influences personality, is flying in the face of some great minds...................Burrhus Skinner, Carl Rogers, John Watson.

Back to your point though....................crime requires punishment..........in the words of Skinner 'Consequences of behaviour determine the probability that the behaviour will occur again'..............maybe the case is that sometimes the punishment does not fit the crime.

But you cannot lump all criminals, all crimes into the same bag...................you cannot deny the criminal the opportunity to change........and therefore you have to be able to seperate the deed from the doer.

You spoke of the dog that bites................the dog needs a muzzle................cuddly tigers that eat your head..............animals do not reason, humans however have that ability...........if you choose to get into the cage.........your choice, but you better beware.

I hate child abusers, paedophiles.................I see no point in their continued existence...........my feelings are if you feel entitled to rob a child of their innocence and screw up their life for them.............you dont deserve to live..........those are my own personal views., but I cant say I feel the same toward other types of criminals. I can see why a child abuser becomes a child abuser, but I cant excuse it.

I can see why someone becomes a thief.....................I think they receive the punishment and if they decide to change..........then GREAT. I am not going to hold their previous crimes against them forever. I am not going to mix up who they are with what they may have done previously.

The world changes and people should have the opportunity to change with it.

I leave you with the words of John Watson

'Give me a dozen healthy infants, well formed, and my own specified world to bring them up in and I'll guarantee to take any one at random and train him to be any type of specialist I might select - doctor, lawyer, artist, merchant chief and yes even beggar man and thief, regardless of his talents, penchants, tendencies, abilities, vocations and race of his ancestors.'

Fifi Freud

13

Amazing how much the dubs still control your life, years after (fate)

by needproof in

jw
friends

just recently, i've been getting this feeling that i just can't escape the witnesses.

i still live in the same area as i did when i was a dub, so i always see the old faces on 'theocratic' mornings.

one such old face reared his ugly head today.

fifi40

Dear Timmy cat

Just in case you read this, I was only joking................I do not have a problem with the witnesses, my son is being raised as one to this day and whilst disfellowshipped, I still have contact occasionally with some of my former friends..............it was a little joke and I apologise if it offended you in anyway.

All the best and welcome

Fifi

89

IDENTITY=Behavior There are no CAUSELESS crimes or innocent evils

by Terry in

we often hear it said: love the sinner, but; hate the sin.. we try and reform the child molester.

we put career criminals through rehabiliation.

we let the drunk driver off with a fine and a warning over and over until an innocent family is wiped out.. why separate the deed from the doer?

fifi40

So Terry

Hypothetically if your daughter is molested (God forbid) and later on in life she has emotional problems, suffers with depression and the like, gets pissed up and drives a car and (God forbid) kills somebody, or gets high on drugs because she is having a hard time coping with life and neglects her kids, do you want society to lock her up and throw away the key or would you want her to do her time and then be entitled to help to sort her life out.

As for child molesters Terry, and sometimes you hit below the belt, because you use the worst possible type of evil to cover all aspects of crime............................ you give me the gun and I'll shoot them!

13

Amazing how much the dubs still control your life, years after (fate)

by needproof in

jw
friends

just recently, i've been getting this feeling that i just can't escape the witnesses.

i still live in the same area as i did when i was a dub, so i always see the old faces on 'theocratic' mornings.

one such old face reared his ugly head today.

fifi40

David.................thats the one...............yep I know who you mean..............I was struggling on the first name..........its a long time ago but I think he was an only child

13

Amazing how much the dubs still control your life, years after (fate)

by needproof in

jw
friends

just recently, i've been getting this feeling that i just can't escape the witnesses.

i still live in the same area as i did when i was a dub, so i always see the old faces on 'theocratic' mornings.

one such old face reared his ugly head today.

fifi40

Mawby.............rings bells....................was his christian name Stephen............did he have reddish hair...........and his mum got d/fed

13

Amazing how much the dubs still control your life, years after (fate)

by needproof in

jw
friends

just recently, i've been getting this feeling that i just can't escape the witnesses.

i still live in the same area as i did when i was a dub, so i always see the old faces on 'theocratic' mornings.

one such old face reared his ugly head today.

fifi40

Needproof..................I cant belive you have not taught your dog to 'go and pee up a witnesses leg' by now................you need to give him some lessons........................start by standing near his fave peeing place holding a copy of the Watchtower or Awake in a suit (or skirt for that matter) and encourage him to pee on the mags (make sure you reward him big time for this act)..............wont be long before you can happily let him off the lead when you spot the Saturday morning crowd and watch in delight as he takes himself off to urinate all over them............thus avoiding any sad cat stories.............

89

IDENTITY=Behavior There are no CAUSELESS crimes or innocent evils

by Terry in

we often hear it said: love the sinner, but; hate the sin.. we try and reform the child molester.

we put career criminals through rehabiliation.

we let the drunk driver off with a fine and a warning over and over until an innocent family is wiped out.. why separate the deed from the doer?

fifi40

Terry

If a child is told that it is thick, stupid, lazy etc as it is raised, how would you expect that child to feel about itself as it grows into adulthood?

Are you refuting that enviroment has an impact on personality or a persons perception of life?

Whilst I agree with you that punishment for crime is necessary, if you just lump the person and crime together you are not allowing for the individual to change their behaviour. And to clarify I mean change their behaviour, not necessarily their mental/emotional reaction to a situation.

What do you think to the James Bulger case for example? Two ten year old boys abducted and murdered a two year old. The perpetrators of this crime were indeed locked up. But both of these boys came from dysfunctional families and one it is claimed had suffered at the hands of his father both physical and sexual abuse. It is also debated that they had both been regularly using violent computer games. So where does the 'buck' for responsibility for this crime stop? Are the parents accountable because of neglect of their children? Are social services responsible because of not realising that at least one of these boys (and his sibling's) were 'at risk'. Are the producers of violent games in part responsible for promoting this type of behaviour? Are we as a society responsible for allowing such 'trash' to be readily available on shop shelves? Were those boys victim of crime themselves?

The crime was the murder of an innocent toddler. Those responsible for that crime were punished. If you do not seperate the crime from those responsible for it, you remove the opportunity for people to learn change, to educate themselves, for those that are questionably victims themselves to become 'rehabilitated' and 'reformed'.

Education takes many forms; we can educate ourselves or we can be taught. As a child we learn much from our enviroment, our parents and our family. If we are raised where negative behaviour is the norm, then it may be that at a vunerable age we accept this as a norm. It can then be understood more easily why someone will replicate negative behaviour. You need only look at witness children who are raised to attend three meetings a week, go out on field service and adhere to JW teachings to know that children will accept and copy their parents behaviour and reasoning. When society judges that an individuals behaviour is wrong/evil/criminal the individual is punished. But the question I ask of you is this; Is that individual entitled to the opportunity to become re-taught?

I have spent, and spend much time considering my reactions to situations and my motivations. I examine where my 'driving force' comes from, what inherited or learnt behaviour leads me to react in a certain way. On occasion I am able to remove myself from an impulsive knee jerk reaction, a learnt response and alter the course of my behaviour. I recognise now that some of the personality traits I adopted as a child serve no purpose and are of no value in my life now. I was fortunate enough to be able to afford and find the services of an extremely good counsellor who aided me in understanding myself, and at a time when I felt the world as I knew it had 'collapsed' helped me make sense of who I was and why, and learn to use the tools we are all given at birth in a different and more rewarding way. Although I had not committed any crime, I was the product of a JW upbringing, a somewhat dysfunctional family, and just out of a marriage I should have never got into, but all the same in part regretted ending.

So in my experience, whilst I agree that crime requires puishment, I also think it is sometimes necessary to afford the perpetrator the opportunity to become educated about their response and reaction to events and be allowed the chance to change. To do this you need to seperate the CRIME from the PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIME.

Fi

89

IDENTITY=Behavior There are no CAUSELESS crimes or innocent evils

by Terry in

we often hear it said: love the sinner, but; hate the sin.. we try and reform the child molester.

we put career criminals through rehabiliation.

we let the drunk driver off with a fine and a warning over and over until an innocent family is wiped out.. why separate the deed from the doer?

fifi40

At what age are you suggesting people become accountable?

If for a child right and wrong is never seperated, evil acts are committed against them, do you expect ALL of them to reach adulthood aware that the treatment they have experienced and their concept of life is wrong or would you agree that some may view it as NORMAL?

If you can in part agree to the above, how do you suggest that such people re-learn how to live a life that is more beneficial to them and society?

Are you saying that because you have educated yourself you are now free of any contamination of the impact of any negative behaviour you experienced as a child, and that others who may have experienced horrendous situations in their formative years should not be given the opportunity to become educated and to some degree healed?

No rational person thinks Hitler was a nice person but at what age and from where do you expect the ability to reason to come from?

Fi

50

TWO DUMB QUESTIONS.......PLUS, ADD YOUR OWN DUMB QUESTIONS

by Warlock in

jw
friends

when you eat crackers, do you lay them out salt side up, or salt side down?

do you put them in your mouth salt side up, or salt side down?.

are there any other dumb questions you can think of, to post on this thread?.

fifi40

If Spider Man and Harry Potter had a fight who would win?

58

Why do you support having sex out of marriage?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i work with a lot of people who are very sexually active.

which should mean they are real happy, right?

after all, isn't sex the best feeling in the world and that is why we have such a strong internal sex drive.

fifi40

I have to agree with our Crumpy in the main...............whether thats cus us Brit girls are a wee bit loose or just because.................(I dont really think British girls are loose.......its their nicker elastic thats loose.......ok I am stopping with that now.............I am not saying anyone is loose).....................but the point I wholeheartedly agree with Crumpet on is that the end of a sexual relationship or one where you live together (for those that live together but dont have sex) does not mean the end of everything and it does not mean you have to be bitter and evil toward each other. I am still friends with my ex hubby (though he drives me nuts sometimes and reminds me why I didnt want to be with him any more), I am still friends with a lot of my exboyfriends (although my first one is a JW elder now and cant talk to me now...........Yawn) but him and his wife were two of my closest friends pre d/fshipping and my last bf before hubby 2 is a good buddy and gets on fine with hubby 2.

It is nice when you remain friends................these people were once VIPs in your life and just because you are not doing rude things doesnt mean you cant care.

Fi