Posts by Shaolu

22

Why doesn't the Holy Spirit know the day and hour of Jesus return?

by booker-t in

everytime you talk about the trinity to born-again christians and bring up the verse where it says of the day and hour only the father knows they will immediately say jesus was in his "human nature" that is why he does not know.

but my question is why don't the holy spirit know the day and hour?

is the holy spirit in human nature as well?

Shaolu

http://www.carm.org/diff/Matt24_36.htm

11

Only

by nicolaou in

1 of all the magazines being published today, onlythewatchtower and awake!

can help sincere readers find the path to everlasting life.

only in the spiritual paradise, among jehovahs witnesses, can we find the self-sacrificing love jesus said would identify his true disciples.

Shaolu

The key phrase here is "end of things" which would bring us into a drawn out discussion on eschatology. In which case I'd really rather not divert the topic completely. Suffice it to say, Christianity is absolutely exclusive. There is but *one* God, *one* Truth, and *one* Way. As a Christian I make no apology for that.

11

Only

by nicolaou in

1 of all the magazines being published today, onlythewatchtower and awake!

can help sincere readers find the path to everlasting life.

only in the spiritual paradise, among jehovahs witnesses, can we find the self-sacrificing love jesus said would identify his true disciples.

Shaolu

Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12)

11

Only

by nicolaou in

1 of all the magazines being published today, onlythewatchtower and awake!

can help sincere readers find the path to everlasting life.

only in the spiritual paradise, among jehovahs witnesses, can we find the self-sacrificing love jesus said would identify his true disciples.

Shaolu

Christianity is not a religion. That being said, in the end of things if you reject God, He will give you what you desire. He offers eternal life, and if you reject it then you will have what you want: eternal death. How's that for "side-stepping"?

23

e-watchman mass banning

by spiceant in

recently e-watchman started deleting/suspending (theres a difference?

) accounts of people on the e-jehovahs-witnesses.com forum left and right which he and the moderating team deemed to be discussing apostate things as in apostate in brother kings own vision, further detailed in some posts (basicly barring out discussions of jw doctrine).. i suppose my own offenses was my "staying in the org.

" thread and one that explained that one should not depend on kh's to be able of worshipping.

Shaolu

"Jehovah Himself Has Become King!" by Robert King Is it just me or does it almost sound like this guy is claiming to be God? The amount of egotism he exudes sure would make it seem that way...

3

Jesus is the arch-angel Michael?

by seekingtruth in

i never understood why the dubs believe that jesus has to be a angel and not part of godship.it clearly states in john:1:1,in the beginning the word was,and the word was with god,and the word was god.the dubs like to add the letter a to make it say,and the word was a god,but this is not correct.now does this mean that jesus is jehovah?of course it doesn't.it's like me saying in the beggining the woman was,and the woman was with man,and the woman was man.now this doesn't mean that the woman, who was eve, was the man adam.was not the woman made from man?thus she was called woman.so it shows as the bible states that they must become one flesh,which doesnt mean they actually are one person.mark:10:6 says,''however,from the beginning of creation he made them male and female,on this account a man will leave his father and mother,and the two will become one flesh,so that they are no longer two,but one flesh''.adam and eve had the same nature but because one was the decision maker and the other was to be in perfect subjection,they were only one flesh.if eve where to chose her own way(which she later did)that would make two decision makers and thus they would no longer be acting as one enity.to act as one enity there can only be one decsion maker,the other must be the submissive agent.just like the head of the woman is man,the head of the man if christ,thus the head of the christ is jehovah.the father is the source for all decisions,this is the difference between the father and the son as john:5:19 says,therefore,in answer,jesus went on to say to them:''most truly i say to you,the son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative,but only what he beholds the father doing.basically,jesus is saying that he is not equal to his father who can do things on his own.but,the point is jesus cant act''from himself'',he can only act from his father.to act''from himself'',would mean that he was independent of his father and therefore could not be truly equal to his father.jesus is answering the accusations by claiming perfect harmony with his father.therefore,the father is the source of all decisions,and the son is the perfect agent of those decisions.this is why jesus is equated as being one with the father because jesus can do nothing from himself.he can only carry out the fathers will and he does it perfectly.this proves that jehovah and jesus act as a single entity,a single being, the one true god.they are both deity,they have the same essential attributes of immorality,having the authority to judge and give life.they are both credited with making the universe,their glory is one.but,the father and son are two persons.they each have a different role,one is the source of all authority and decisions,the other is the perfect agent or servant.this explains why jesus does not know those things that are for the father to decide and so must receive that knowledge from him.it explains why jesus is in perfect submission to his father and his head.it explains how the father can be greater than the son.it explains how jesus could be god and yet have a god.hebrews 5:8 says,''although he was a son,he learned obeidence from the things he suffered''.if jesus had been an angel in heaven prior to coming to earth,he would have already have known obedience.but this verse says he learned obedience by coming to earth.why did jesus have to learn obedience?if he were god would he not already know?the answer is no!all creatures know and experience obedience.god is the only one that does not know obedience because he cannot experience it,he can only observe it.likewise, jesus does not know sin because he cannot experience it,he can only observe it.so,although jesus was submissive and had observed obedience in angels,he had never experienced obedience until he accepted the consequences of sin,the sin of others.so jesus cannot be a angel,to futher prove this look at hebrews 1:13-14:it says''but with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said,sit at my right hand until i place your enemies as a stool for your feet,are they (angels)not all spirits for public service,sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation.

''its a rhetorical question,it means no angels would ever sit at his right hand,thus proving jesus could not be a angel.and also look at hebrews 2:5,it says,''for it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come,about which we are speaking.

''you can clearly see that jesus could not be a angel,but he is deity with the almighty god.

Shaolu

You might find it interesting to note that the Watchtower has not always denied worship of Jesus. While the organization has always adhered to Arianism, up until the 40's it taught that while Jesus was merely an angel it was still somehow proper to worship Him. That's why it states as such in the Watchtower charter to this day (since it was last amended back in the 40's).

7

What is the best way to rebutt JW's argument that Jesus is not "almighty"?

by ukescott in

i am in a debate with korean jw's over the divinity of jesus.

i showed them tons of scripture that imply that jesus is divine.

they reluctantly accepted those and argue that jesus may be a "mighty" god, not "almighty" god and that jehovah alone is almighty.

Shaolu

I'd suggest comparing Revelation 1:17,18 with 4:8, 22:12-16, and Isaiah 44:6. Those four scriptures alone make it pretty clear. Here's a study from "Pilgrimage Through the Watchtower" (Chapter 6) by Kevin Quick that might be useful...

Jehovah is the only true God (undisputed).

Jesus is the creator (Gen 1:26-27, Is 44:24, John 1:3, Rom 11:36, John 1:10, Eph 3:9, Col 1:15-16 [cp. Ps 89:27, Gen 41:51-52, Jer 31:9], Heb 1:8,10, 3:3-4) and sustainer (Col 1:17, Heb 1:3) of all things. He is the Savior (Is 43:11, Is 45:21, Hos 13:4, Titus 1:3,4, 2:13, 3:4, Titus 3:6, 2 Pet 1:1). He gives things that only God can give (John 1:12-13, Rev 2:23). He is the judge of all (John 5:22,23, 2 Cor 5:10) and has authority to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-7,10, Luke 5:21, 5:24, 1 Cor 8:12, Eph 4:32). He is all-seeing (1 Ki 8:39, Rev 2:23), omniscient (1 Ki 8:39, Matt 9:4, 12:25, Mark 2:8, Luke 6:8, 9:47, John 11:1, Col 2:2-3, Rev 2:23 [cp. 1 Ki 8:39]), and omnipresent (Matt 18:20, 28:20). Jesus was eternally preexistent (Micah 5:2, John 1:1, Col 1:17, Heb 7:3) and He never changes (Heb 1:8,10, 13:8). It is proper to serve Him (John 12:26, Rom 1:1, 1 Cor 4:1, 2 Cor 5:15, Gal 1:10, Phil 1:1, Col 3:24, 4:12, Jas 1:1, Jude 1), to pray to Him (John 14:14 [Kingdom Interlinear], Acts 7:59-60, 9:14, 9:20-21, 22:16, 22:17-19, Rom 10:9, 11-13, 1 Cor 1:2, 2 Cor 12:8-9, 1 Ti 1:12, Rev 22:20), to give Him glory (Is 42:8, 48:11, Dan 7:13-14, John 1:14, 5:22-23, 11:4, 13:31-32, 16:13-15, 17:5, Acts 3:13, Phil 2:9, Col 1:16, 2 Thess 1:12, 2 Pet 3:18, Rev 1:5-6, 5:11-14), and to worship Him (Matt 2:2,8,11, 4:10, 14:33, 28:9,16-17, John 9:38, Heb 1:6, Rev 5:8, 14:7 [cp. Acts 10:25, Rev 19:10, 22:8-9]). Jesus is Lord (Deut 10:17, Matt 12:8, John 20:27-28, Rom 10:9,11-13, Eph 4:4-5, James 2:1, Rev 17:14, 19:16) and is sovereign with His Father (Matt 25:31, 28:18, John 3:31,35, 13:3, 16:15, 17:10, Phil 2:9-11, Heb 1:2, 2:8, Rev 22:3). Being the Son of God (John 5:18, 10:28-33,36), He is also truly God (Deut 32:36,39, Is 9:6, 10:21, 43:10, 44:6 [cp. Is 48:12, Rev 1:17-18, 2:8, 21:6-7, 22:12-16,20], Matt 1:23, 13:41, John 1:1, 2:19,21 [cp. Acts 2:24], 5:18, 8:19,28,58-59 [cp. Ex 3:14; LXX], 10:28-33, 12:44, 13:19, 14:7-9, 15:13, 18:4-6, 20:28,29, Acts 20:28, Eph 3:19, Phil 2:6, Col 2:9, 1 Ti 3:15-16, Titus 2:13, Heb 1:3,4,8 [cp. Ps 45:6], 3:1-4, 2 Pet 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Rev 22:1-4) and Jehovah (Zech 2:8-11, 11:12-13 [cp. Matt 26:14-15], 12:1,10 [cp. Rev 1:7], 14:3-5 [cp. Matt 25:31, Acts 1:11-12], 14:5 [cp. 1 Thess 3:13], Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2-3, Luke 3:4, John 1:23, Luke 1:76 [cp. Is 40:3], Matt 21:15-16 [cp. Ps. 2:6], John 17:11,12, Rom 10:9,11-13 [cp. Joel 2:32], Phil 2:9, 1:4, 1:8,10 [cp. Ps 102:22-25]), together with His Father.

The Holy Spirit is a Person (Matt 3:16, 10:20, Mark 1:10, Luke 12:12, John 1:32, 14:16-17,26, 15:26, 16:7-8,13-15, Acts 1:16, 5:3,9, 10:19-20, 15:28, 20:23, Rom 8:16, 1 Cor 12:11, Eph 4:30, Heb 3:7, Heb 10:15, Rev 22:17), and is God (Gen 1:2 [cp. vs. 1], Matt 12:32, Luke 12:10, John 14:26, Acts 1:16 [cp. Heb 1:1], Acts 5:3-4, 28:25 [cp. Heb 1:1], 2 Cor 13:14, Heb 10:15-17) together with the Father and with the Son.

The Old Testament in several places indicates plurality in the Godhead (Gen 1:1,2,3, 1:26, 3:22, 11:7,9, Gen 18, 19:24, Ex 23:20-23 [cp. 1 Cor 10:4], Is 48:12,16, 63:7-14, Zech 2:8-11, 3:2]). As mentioned above, the Bible indicates both the deity of Christ and the personality and deity of the Holy Spirit. These factors, together with the deity of the Father (undisputed), produce a description of the Godhead in trinity. Especially in the New Testament, these three Persons are repeatedly spoken of as cooperating collectively (Matt 3:16-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-22, Matt 28:19, Luke 1:35, John 3:34-35, John 14:26, 16:13-15, Acts 2:32-33, 38-39, Rom 15:16,30, 1 Cor 12:4-6, 2 Cor 3:4-6, 13:14 [cp. 1 John 1:3], Gal 4:4-6, Eph 4:4-6, Heb 10:12,15, 1 Pet 1:2).

9

THE FINAL SOLUTION!

by *jeremiah* in

this was a reply post, but i thought it should be its own topic.. here are some very pro un or pro world order articles that can be found on the front page of the jw website.

on the right side under more topics you will find this series of articles entitled, 'the problems of children-the solution at last'.

theosophy.

Shaolu

Don't forget that the WBTS of Pennsylvania (as opposed to the NY one) is currently an NGO as of at least 2005 according to the OSCE Conference on Anti-Semitism and Other Forms of Intolerance. If that NGO status is with the UN (I don't know if the OSCE has an NGO program as well or not), then they still have the same DPI requirements to conduct "information programmes". I don't understand why the PA corporation's NGO status hasn't been addressed more...

113

Judicial Committee Audio Recording

by Shaolu in

about a week ago i had my little meeting with "the bobs" (yuk yuk), and i got the whole thing digitally recorded.

it's available online, along with a written transcript here...

http://www.ichthusstudios.org/cults/jw/

Shaolu

Absolutely, Anitar. Consider it all public domain :-)

30

MySpace is dying...

by Shaolu in

lately i've noticed more and more jw groups on myspace seem to be disappearing and losing members.

at first i egotistically thought might have something to do with my efforts (i sometimes suffer from delusions of grandeur).

however, a couple posts came to my attention on two of the private jw groups.... .

Shaolu

Lately I've noticed more and more JW groups on MySpace seem to be disappearing and losing members. At first I egotistically thought might have something to do with my efforts (I sometimes suffer from delusions of grandeur). However, a couple posts came to my attention on two of the private JW groups...

From "! YoUnG JeHoVaH's WiTnEsSeS!"
"Catlin" wrote:
I was just at my special day assembly this weekend, and we received a rather interesting message. A brother visiting from bethel gave a talk specifically regarding how the bible can be used to help us in todays world. He first made note of how the information at Gal. 5:20-6:3 can help married couples with communication problems.
What was even more interesting was the next point he made. He SPECIFICALLY NAMED "myspace, bibo, facebox, and other such network sites" as something that witness youths should NOT be a part of.
I'll admit, at first I thought to myself: "well, technically being 21, I'm not considered a youth, and I'm extremely internet savy, so I know all about what I'm doing, and I don't really have to stop using myspace.
However, he made a few points that really struck that although I knew, I hadn't really given deep thought. First, the internet and sites such as myspace although created and used with good intentions, are the perfect dwelling place for predators. Obvious, I know, but important none the less. I looked at a friend's profile and tried to find all the information I could on that individual. To my surprise I was able to find out what city she lived in, where she works, what she looks likes, who her friends are, what pets she has, her age, even her rough birthdate. With that information, even the stupidest of predators could find you.
Second point, Ps. 26:45, Prov. 22:3 - talk about how we should never dwelling with those that hide who they are. He skillfully pointed out that this does not merely apply to predators or apostates, but also to individuals living double lives. And there is no place at which this happens more than on the internet. The speaker was so enthusiastic about how we should not use such sites as this, that he was close to pounding the podium.

I wrote this only to share the society's view and what I heard at my assembly. My personal decision is to follow their instruction, and will therefore no longer be viewing this group, or any others for that matter. I do not find this to be the only conclusion to this instruction, but from comments posted on other forum topics, there are individuals living double lives and doing things contrary to Jehovah's direction. Therefore I thank all members for their comments and would advise all those thinking that elders and parents will never check myspace to think again; 'is my profile one that brings praise to Jehovah and an honest representation of who I am'. I apologize if I've offended anyone, and a great thanks to JW for posting those great bulletins.

From "TRUE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"
"Myspace Won't Let Me Delete My Account" wrote:
Well the letter was read this evening. It is very clear that regarding sites like Myspace, the Christian Congregation is making a strong statement. We must take a stand towards christian principles when it comes to sites such as this. Sites which open themselves up to the debauchery that we so often see on myspace. It was quite clear that they are not hinting or making subtle suggestions. We are to cut ourselves away from even being associated with sites which harbor so much filth (and we know that myspace does!)

And with that.. I will be leaving as will my children.

Should you want to remain in contact, message me here on myspace and I will give you my real email.

I will leave this up for a day or so and then i'll be gone.

Love & Peace,
Michelle

It'd be nice to get a hold of that letter to see what it said specifically...