Serving as a congregation elder and involved with organizing circuit and district conventions demands much of your time. I received criticism for giving the cult a tertiary position and putting my family needs and expectations before theirs. I remember several elder meetings that I left early before concluding to care for a family matter. The first time I did that, one elder panicked and saying emphatically, ?We haven?t closed in prayer!? My response was, ?I have already said a silent one, don?t worry, I agree with what ever the body decides, I will see you on Sunday.?
Now that I am not a member, my family benefits even more from my time dedicated to them, and sees them as nothing more than an organization and me as the same loving husband and father.
titomunoz
JoinedPosts by titomunoz
-
23
Looking Back, Did You Neglect Your Family Because You Were In The "Truth"?
by minimus ini know many of us felt we were doing "god's work" and did not have to spend time with our families or even do things for ourselves.
our only focus was the ministry and the "truth"....... did you too, neglect yourself and your family??
?
-
-
titomunoz
-
24
We gave them our letters of DA
by Redneckgurl inwell, i guess it will be official very soon, the announcement will be read and we will be "lost" into satan's world... my husband gave our letters to the elder who came to visit us with his wife the other day.
this is the 3rd time they came by in the last month, even after he told them he would call them if we wanted to "talk".
they saw the christmas tree shining through the door, brightly lit, so there could be no question that we had already taken some steps away.......but he still stayed for an hour trying to convince my husband that it was the "truth".. later that day my parents came over (i wasn't here) and he said my mom just looked at our christmas decorations with jealousy in her eyes.
-
-
titomunoz
Garybus, it worked for me. After years of slaving as elder, pioneer, circuit assblies, etc., I stepped down and refused to give them the satisfaction of making any announcement about my family or myself. Maybe threatening them with a lawsuit helped them to leave me alone. No one has shunned us or even made us feel unwelcome at any place, time or activity. I used those two articles as reference and it made my point.
-
24
We gave them our letters of DA
by Redneckgurl inwell, i guess it will be official very soon, the announcement will be read and we will be "lost" into satan's world... my husband gave our letters to the elder who came to visit us with his wife the other day.
this is the 3rd time they came by in the last month, even after he told them he would call them if we wanted to "talk".
they saw the christmas tree shining through the door, brightly lit, so there could be no question that we had already taken some steps away.......but he still stayed for an hour trying to convince my husband that it was the "truth".. later that day my parents came over (i wasn't here) and he said my mom just looked at our christmas decorations with jealousy in her eyes.
-
-
titomunoz
Why did you give them DA letters? It was not a necessary step since your baptism was before 1985. Had you simply continued as you are, there would not be an announcement, you avoid formal shunning, and your children would not experience the turmoil and other negative emotions they are going through. Take time to review these two Watchtower articles and see how the earlier one applies to you. May 1, 1973 page 290, June 1, 1985 page 30, the earlier baptism was to Jehovah God by means of Jesus Christ and his holy spirit, post 1985 is a baptism to Jehovah?s Witnesses and their organization. Best Wishes, Tito Muñoz
-
10
This is what the WatchTower overlooks about Eden
by titomunoz inthe issue of procreation
what do i learn from the rebellion in the garden of eden that most do not recognize?
have we missed or overlooked a vital element that will allow us to further understand the issues and controversy we are facing before god?
-
-
titomunoz
THE ISSUE OF PROCREATION What do I learn from the rebellion in the Garden of Eden that most do not recognize? Have we missed or overlooked a vital element that will allow us to further understand the issues and controversy we are facing before God? The basis of the events in the Garden of Eden is actually to determine if all of God's autonomous creations have the right to procreate or replicate and if they can exercise that ability with all the responsibility that is required as progenitors. All the rest of the bible is in reference to this belief: Only God by means of the Christ can offer a satisfying life and existence to all his creation and in the future, only God himself. All autonomous creation must recognize Jesus as the means to God, yes angelic and human. Jesus not only paid the ransom for humans to do so in the future but also allowed for a means to disprove Satan?s and his cohorts the assumed need to procreate in order to have a satisfying life or existence. I am thinking that we can gain further insight into what occurred and was involved in the Garden of Eden. We must consider the Devil?s phrase to Eve, at Genesis 3:5 ?for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.? It is now we deduce that: 1.) God did not give them knowledge of ?good and evil? 2.) They did not know right from wrong; acceptable from unacceptable, etc., 3.) He tells them not to do something anyway for which they do not posses a reference point. Since they did not know the difference between ?good and evil?. How could they do the good or right thing? Disobedience in this context is actually a freeing of the human spirit to become a human individual. Assuming there was a similar admonition in heaven, the question is: How did the devil at this point determine what is good and bad? Had he rebelled in the holy heavens before involving humans on earth? If the answers to both questions are positive, we can understand fully the issues raised and understand the actions these once perfect angelic creations took. In addition, we can further understand the life course of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. This angelic creature must have previously rebelled in heaven before God and the myriad of angels at a much earlier time before the creation of Adam. Genesis 1:26 explains in a progressive logical manner the final result of his creation of man on earth when we read, ?And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.? We assume that all this was an event cumulating a series of logical linear events. Understand that the scripture at this point does not offer an explanation as to why God was motivated to create the physical universe, earth and the life on it. It is easy to surmise ?out of love?, no, he is an intelligent being that does not require to be surrounded by inferiors to himself. ?Love? does not explain logic, mathematics, ideas, and other abstract understandings. When he created all the spiritual creatures, he formed them through Jesus, as Colossians 1:15-16 explains, ?Who, is an image of the unseen God, Firstborn of all creation because, in him, were created all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the things seen and the things unseen, whether thrones or lordships or principalities or authorities, -they all, through him and for him, have been created.? The term ?by means of him? is literally through him, as when a child is born through the mother. This would mean that the spiritual entities created by means of Jesus would be characteristically similar in makeup, disposition and autonomy to him, in effect similar replications. This personal autonomy contributed to one of the angels to question primarily the means by which God created him and his relation to himself. Yes, he somehow achieved self-awareness. He desired to replicate or promulgate his own autonomous existence. In other words, he could see the enjoyment that God and Jesus derived from ?their? creations of which he he and all the others did not have. This reaction to the lack of ability to replicate eventually led to dissatisfactions, debates, and justification for his desire. From God?s viewpoint, his creation had rebelled against him by desiring to have the same ability as he in his entire image. As an avenue for satisfaction for this desire and to determine whether his creation can and should replicate, he proceeded to form the physical universe. The process was long and extensive until he finally had to create supposedly free moral agents that could determine for them what life course to take and have the ability to procreate or replicate. Animal and plant life did not satisfy that autonomous requirement because they have no choice but to glorify God in spite of themselves. Once the devil saw how man would be able to procreate, whereas angels do not, his jealousy and desire intensified. His rebellion against god is as follows: 1.) God should not limit replication to humans, 2.) He does not have the right to subvert self-awareness and consciousness of humans or spiritual angelic hosts, 3.) All free moral agents have the right to choose whether to live or die independent of God?s instilled fear-based behavioral obedience 4.) Given a choice, most free moral agents would agree with Satan and reject most of God?s idealisms. This sounds easy enough to see, believe, and understand. However to say that it is simply because the devil is just a rebel is to say Jesus was just a perfect man. Taking into account what occurred in heaven before the disobedience of Adam it, I assert that Satan was interested in determining that humans should procreate while they do not. After all, humankind is inferior, limited by all comparisons to the angels, why should they have this ability and not the spiritual hosts. It was as if God was cheating his angelic creations in the efforts to settle the issue. This would not satisfy his allegations to the desired ability to do so himself. The viewing vicariously of the human procreative abilities would not satisfy the angelic creatures determination by God that they should not replicate themselves but rather that only God and Jesus should be able to do so. By inducing Adam and Eve to disobey God, he knew a death sentence was inevitable, and he was hoping that God would allow that to settle the issue of the right to procreate, their disobedience toward independence from God. To his surprise, God took his entire paradisiacal blessing away from the first human couple except for the ability to procreate. He had no choice. How would humans react if in the future, seemingly from out of thin air, new humans were to appear? Regardless of Adam?s fall, he held within his loins an entire human race ready to populate the earth. He could not allow the unjustified destruction of all those individuals. This explains to a great degree why Genesis highlights the demons attempt to have children of their own albeit hybrids. Their unnatural desire was not sexual in of itself, rather and instead, the reproducing of themselves. We do not read of establishing great cities with political or promising rulership, or of seducing men to follow them as saviors or leaders. Perhaps it was to a much-unplanned unexpected consequence seeing their offspring being wickedly violent. It was a failed angel/human mating experiment. The constant instigation of rebelliousness of the Israelites against God through Jesus is an effort to impose their idea that God should not rule universally. Jesus ransom for all humans desiring to live all for God is the only means of justification before God. Our view and actions concerning the reproductive powers that we are endowed with show time after time that we are incapable of caring for offspring and making long lasting beneficial decisions for the well-being and long term comfort of our offspring. God will prove that he and he alone by means of Jesus Christ is able to ?procreate? and care satisfactorily for all his creations weather autonomous or not. He will take from humans their ability to procreate and reserve that ability only for himself after the thousand year reign, as we learn from 1 Corinthians 15:28 ?But whensoever have been put into subjection, unto him, the all things, then, the Son himself, also shall be put in subjection unto him who put in subjection, unto him, the all things, that, God, may be, all things in all.? This is my epiphany, from reading the bible so many times and listening for years to what most religions say concerning the reasons for human suffering, sin, death, and Jesus? sacrifice, I am convinced this is on factor we miss time after time. The issue of procreation requires addressing for all of God?s creations.
-
9
Witnesses to Abuse (New Hampshire JW Abuse Story)
by UnDisfellowshipped inhttp://www.1590.com/stories/0,1413,222~23678~1492331,00.html
article published: thursday, july 03, 2003 - 8:38:27 am est .
witnesses to abuse
-
-
titomunoz
Recent events leading to the discovering of pedophiles in religious organizations has caused them to reassess their policy on handling alleged cases of pedophilia. The legal and financial ramifications seem to be of major concern to all involved parties for all the obvious and not so obvious reasons. This year the allegations brought forth against Catholic priests has been publicized in the media and a great quantity of victims has come forth as having suffered sexual abuse by priests. The allegations are not limited to only catholic priests. Individuals have come forth with similar cases of sexual abuse in the hands of incestuous individuals and pedophiles within the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization. The matter of handling these allegations put forth by the media has been their main concern. American catholic archbishops and priests have taken a proactive stand to correct those men involved in these immoral and in most instances, illegal sexual discrepancies. The frustration between those accused and alleged victims is tantamount to a divorced couple attempting to distribute their community property. It is questionable whether the intent is to settle the issue on a financial basis and monetary awards in an effort to dismiss cases as speedily and quietly as possible. Perhaps focus can be directed at what we can learn from the scriptures on how to deal with cases such as these. The principles outlined in the scriptures are a clear indication of how to treat cases of sexual abuse. Clearly we can see the scriptures give clear indications to treat severely and punishment for those guilty of such crimes. The issue is on how the bible gives weight to the victims and little room for the alleged perpetrator. Society will not count the allegation of one child to dismiss the case against an adult pedophile based on the only eyewitness account of the victim. The scriptures nonetheless clearly indicate that Jehovah views the perpetrator as guilty of his actions. Consider please the account found at Deuteronomy 22:23-27,“In case there happened to be a virgin girl engaged to a man, and a man actually found her in the city and lay down with her, 24 YOU must also bring them both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die, the girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city, and the man for the reason that he humiliated the wife of his fellowman. So you must clear away what is evil from your midst.25 “If, however, it is in the field that the man found the girl who was engaged, and the man grabbed hold of her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her must also die by himself, 26 and to the girl you must do nothing. The girl has no sin deserving of death, because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case. 27 For it was in the field that he found her. The girl who was engaged screamed, but there was no one to rescue her. Clearly Jehovah advocates in favor of the virgin who has been victimized by the rapist even though no one heard her scream. He himself credits her screaming. Truly if she did not scream it was out of fear of losing her life because since she is out of ear shot, no one could come to her rescue. Jehovah lovingly has claimed that he, even though no one else did, hear her, he serves as the second witness in her favor. Who therefore, can argue against him? This is not limited to only rapists, we can apply the same principle to young men, women, and children in the hands of pedophiles. We need to also consider the amount of witnesses required to convict these alleged perpetrators. In the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion, unless you have two or more witnesses, the allegations are not usually taken before a judicial committee. Their interpretation and application of Deuteronomy 19:15 is correct when applied to several types of cases and specific allegations. When allegations of another sort come to light the rule does not apply. The admonition an Deuteronomy 13:6-11 gives a clear indication of how Jehovah did not always require two or more witnesses concerning the establishment of quilt. He shows a reasonableness found only in his mercy to those who have been victimized. What this means is that he gives weight to the testimony of only the victim who has seen the wrong or been victimized by another. It reads, “In case your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or your cherished wife or your companion who is like your own soul, should try to allure you in secrecy, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ whom you have not known, neither you nor your forefathers, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are all around YOU, the ones near you or those far away from you, from one end of the land to the other end of the land, 8 you must not accede to his wish or listen to him, nor should your eye feel sorry for him, nor must you feel compassion, nor cover him [protectively]; 9 but you should kill him without fail., and the hand of all the people afterward. 10 And you must stone Your hand first of all should come upon him to put him to death him with stones, and he must die, because he has sought to turn you away from Jehovah your God, who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. 11 Then all Israel will hear and become afraid, and they will not do anything like this bad thing again in your midst. This is a clear indication of his loving kindness extended to those who are victimized. Does this give room for abuse of some bringing forth false accusations? I believe not. The alleged perpetrator can bring forth those to refute the allegations by providing an alibi and other witnesses to prove whether or not the possibility of such pedophilia or sexual abuse could have occurred. Organized religion would do well in establishing a biblical answer in handling these cases. Jehovah’s Witnesses conveniently fail to cite these scriptures and concentrate on Deuteronomy 19:15. What is extraordinary is that the American legal system does give credence to one sole victim’s voice and has gone to court to establish innocence or guilt in such allegations. Perhaps they know more of Jehovah’s mercy and religion can learn from them. Rather than use the bible for guidance and direction it can be said they, religious organizations who harbor criminals, use it like a light bulb, as a flotation device instead of for illumination. “Confidentiality” is a guise to keep facts of criminal activity and immorality hidden from others or known only to oneself or to a few select congregation members from leaking out to newly admitted members and of course hidden from the proper legal activities. When any investigative unit is permitted to operate as the Watchtower Society instructs judicial committees, making decisions that affect people’s lives and reputations, it will sooner or later abuse this power as we have seen over several years. "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" page 105 clearly explains: Confidentiality Do not discuss private or judicial matters with members of your family, including your wife, or with others who are not involved. (w714/1 pp. 222-4) Think before you speak. Be extremely careful that you do not inadvertently disclose private information when speaking on the telephone while others are listening in or when people are nearby where they could possibly hear the conversation. At times, complicated judicial cases may necessitate consultation with an experienced mature elder in another congregation or with the circuit overseer. Generally, the pertinent details should be discussed, but names should not be used. However, when the circuit overseer is the elder consulted or when circumstances require that you contact the Society, use of names may be necessary. (w87 9/1pp. 12-15; km 9/77 p. 6) Be careful to maintain confidentiality. (Prov. 11:13; 15:22)
-
88
The coming "disassociations"
by Elsewhere ini have seen several threads about how the elders are going to be going around asking people if they still consider themselves to be jehovah's witnesses.
this will undoubtedly result in multiple da announcements in the coming months.
i'm curious how the average jw will perceive this and respond to it.
-
-
titomunoz
Perhaps the real question is how can they possibly benefit from losing members on one fell swoop.
The WT operates on a method of operandi of looking for ways to motivate as many members into productive activity as possible. The pattern is clear upon reviewing their history. A strong campaign to recruit new members follows a "cleansing period", "Jehovah is speeding it up", "Draw close to his organization", "The end is ever nearer", etc. These new ones are privileged to form the nucleus of the new world, system, society, etc.
Next, consider answering why.
I was one of the 75 or so elders privileged to attend the District Convention Seminar in Denton, Texas May 4,5, 1996. It was made clear to all in attendance that the primary purpose and real reason there is a strong push to have good attendance at the district convention is for none other than to raise funds. Each attendee donates on average $80-$120. Although they use scriptures to explain the loving kindness of lowering hotel and travel costs, the real pragmatic reason is so publishers will have more money to contribute.
District conventions are simply an annual fundraiser.With all the financial strain currently faced by the WT, they definitely have a need for new contributors; hence weed out the inactive (pretending to cleanse the organization; since they are not providing financially anyway there is nothing to lose), push the remaining ones to recruit more and with more ease, hence more contributions.
In the end, they benefit from control over new inexperienced publishers and the fringe financial benefit to care for all the new growth.
Only the wrapping has changed on this old package.