Posts by emyrose

It is so easy to generalise and make it sound like an educated statement, but it's just another opinion with its own biases. The world and humanity really isnt that simple.

Hi Frontle, I agree with Larc's evaluation of this rather insightful comment of yours. People tend to stereotype anything that they don't have the time to examine fully. However, I would use the word "analysis" or even "lens" instead of "opinion," for the right connotation. After all, Marx wasn't just your average Joe smosh and his assessment about religion is respected to some degree in the various intellectual worlds. Yes,
some folks tend to have a one dimensional reality, where things are
viewed in simplistic ways stemming for a more intellectually romantic
approach to their existence, imo. Religion may have grown too bitter
in their reality, in their immediate world. Some are not always aware
that religion plays different roles in society. It has not simply been a tool solely for evil purposes. Religion has served as an oasis
for the poor and uneducated in terms of having an place where they
could experience cultural spirituality among fellows. Others, let it carry cultural and traditional morality for them. Now I am not saying
that there are no manipulative aspects to this , namely elite control and dominance of the masses. Yet the masses do not set up the structures (only influencing the areas within and in dif. degrees)
of society and can only exercise a limited amount of power. So naturally, as rational actors within established society, they make use of what is available. We live under hierarchical structures.
Maybe this may not sound ideal, but societies with enormous populations require it. It is inevitable social bureaucracy within
our human evil/good reality. So saying that religion is ONLY or MOSTLY a bad thing (like the historical opium catastrophy of Marx's time and world) is to confine oneself to a one dimensional perspective of a very complex and long-existent part of civilization.

8

those NOT raised in the truth

by jurs in

jw
friends

i was married with 2 small children (an adult) when someone came to my door.

i can't figure out how i ever got invoved !!!

i can completely see how one can be easily brainwashed being a child and raised as a witness, but i'm angry at myself more than the organization that i was so easily duped... i feel i lost 9 years of my life and missed out on so much for being stupid.

emyrose

Hi Jurs,

Please don't confuse trust with stupidity. Perhaps you were
not exactly brilliant when succumbing to their sophisticated
manipulation, but you were certainly not plain stupid. In my
first congregation they had managed to covert an Ivy League prof. of psychologywhen he was in his late 50's. He was just as
trusting as you, obviously.
As for feeling guilty due to imposing the JW lifestyle on your
children, don't forget that your intentions are what really count.
If you loved them and continue to love them, then you shouldn't worry
about how they will treat you in the future.

Thanks, Emyrose

59

Blood, The Watchtower and Deceit

by Maximus in

jw
friends

while much attention is given to doctrine in sites such as this, very little is noted about the watchtower societys intellectual dishonesty in its publications, especially when it comes to quotations.. oftentimes the societys writers will cite a scholar or author of some repute: "professor blank observes that blah, blah, blah.

" the reader assumes from the quotation that professor blank is in agreement with the organizations position, of course, and that the quotation chosen accurately depicts the authors thoughts.. heres the catch: the words between the quotation marks may be accurate, but the snippet may not at all faithfully represent someones actual thesis or position.

much like a newspaper ad for a movie that quotes a reviewer as saying "monumental!

emyrose

I wonder how Gorman would feel if he knew how his well crafted sentence was lifted out of context? Ethics? Bet he has no idea that what he has written about "justice, integrity, honesty and faithfulness" in the Christian community has been distorted in millions of magazines all over the globe, in scads of languages—in furtherance of a flawed, inconsistent policy that lets children literally die to show respect for life symbolically. Someone ought to write him and ask him what he thinks about the Society’s honesty and faithfulness!

Hi Maximus,
Thanks for this great info. and presentation.
I would also love to find out what this author would do if
he knew his research was being used to endorse the bloodguilty
policy on blood tranfusions of the Watch Tower Society. I'm
sure he knows that this policy has resulted in many deaths.

Hi Marvin Shilmer,

Rather, Tertullian’s remark was that the interdict to abstain from blood found in the Apostolic Decree of Acts chapter 15 applies "much more upon human blood" in respect to murder. In this portion of Tertullian we find nothing at all to support the Society’s contention that the Apostolic Decree applied to eating human blood.

Thanks, I didn't know that the WTS fooled us in this reference.
What a bunch of shameless underhanded liars!

12

If Witnesses Had To Be Honest in F.S.

by NikL in

jw
friends

witness: hi.

witness: right.

witness: oh yes.

emyrose

If Witnesses Had To Be Completely Honest For One Day of Field Service

Hi Nikl,
How can they be honest with strangers if they can't even be
honest with themselves. Some have been repeating the same scripted
answers for these questions for decades. They are at a level
of complete delusion and thus denial. Think about how we justify
anything in ours lives, through constant affirmation of beliefs, sometimes with logic sometimes not. Do you constantly question
the injustice of famine or do you accept it as a necessary or
not solvable problem on this planet? You will belief what suits you.

41

Perversion of Baptismal Vows

by AlanF in

jw
friends

an appendix in the book contains some 120 questions along with hundreds of scriptural "proof texts" that the proselyte is then expected to study.

12 jesus commanded his followers to baptize new disciples in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit.

the following quotation shows what the proselyte is expected to study just prior to baptism:.

emyrose

In short, the Society tricks new converts into taking a loyalty oath. That is indeed blatantly underhanded.

Yes Alan, it most definitely is tricky but I still disagree
that the oath is sprung on students as a complete surprise. I can't
speak for everyone of course, but I knew that I was joining
an exacting and strict organization, which was being led by
men that were appointed by Jah's Holy Spirit. That is one of
the primary reasons why I decided to join, I believed it was
Jah's organization on earth. And I was also aware that they
were not infallible just as the apostles were not perfect.
They never claimed to write holy scripture but rather just
interpret it with Jah's Holy Spirit, which they said would
be slowly revealed to a perfection. Thus, they admitted that
mistakes were going to be made. Now all this sounds illogical
but by then we are already intellectually and psychologically manipulated, in other words brainwashed enough to swallow this
garbage. As for the disfellowshipment rule, I was aware of it
and knew a brother who was disfellowshiped and shunned before
getting baptized. SO I was well aware of the fact that not following the rules would result in being removed as a member.

I think the perversion of the baptismal vows comes from the long-term manipulation and lying on the part of the org. rather than simply a
last minute explicit request for loyalty. Loyalty is already demanded
from you in areas of meeting attendance, field service, participation at meetings and therefore diligent study of their publications, social association and attire.

No court anywhere should allow such a contract to be binding,however,
because the student is never really of a sound mind, which is an essential requirement for a legal contract. But religious freedom
and the tremendous difficulty of proving insanity is a court of law
will mean that this loyalty oath will be ruled as binding.

BTW, thanks, for your reply and presentation of your research and tech. tip.

19

Is this how they control people?

by Loki in

jw
friends

if religion is, as marx said, the opium of the people, do the borg just have theirs at a better grade than most religions?

is that why it is so hard for people to "kick the habit"?

is that why we feel so strongly about the borg - reformed druggies being the most outspoken and all that?

emyrose

Hi and welcome Loki,

Good analogy. Yeah, JWs are under a highly addictive form
of idealogy whereas other religious folks are under
soft-drugs (like weed) ideologies. Pot-heads don't rob
and kill their
family and friends to support their habit, right? Crack-heads
do. Jws are taught to sacrifice all this for their religion.
So maybe religion should be used like drugs, only to solve
certain problems and only in moderation.

57

My Story******Short Version!

by think41self in

i was raised a poor white child in the deep south...ok, florida, where i still am.

i was the typical slightly self righteous witness, miss goody goody, left school at 16 to pioneer, which i did for 4 years, met a guy and married him.

he had 2 kids from a previous marriage and we had 2 kids of our own.

emyrose

"Jehovah will fix everything, you never have to do anything for yourself...you devalue yourself to a God who never accepts what you do as good enough any way!"

I don't remember feeling that way when I was a JW. I never thought Jah
would fix everything, rather just help me cope with all the hardship
in this world and (as a true christian) all the persecution from others. I guess depending on how many family members
join with you and what the climate of the one's congregation is we all differ in how we experience JW life. Of course many other personal circumtances factor in too.
Anyway, I think its great that you were able to survive all that tragedy and blossom into the really kind individual that you sound
like and in which the manner that you greeted me in the chat room shows. Looking forward to hear more about your story.

Thanks, Emyrose

41

Perversion of Baptismal Vows

by AlanF in

jw
friends

an appendix in the book contains some 120 questions along with hundreds of scriptural "proof texts" that the proselyte is then expected to study.

12 jesus commanded his followers to baptize new disciples in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit.

the following quotation shows what the proselyte is expected to study just prior to baptism:.

emyrose

[QUOTE]What we have here is a classic cultish lack of telling the truth to prospective Jehovah's Witnesses about exactly what they are getting into. Such proselytes are kept ignorant of the full import of what they are required to vow until the very last second before taking the step of baptism. That makes it impossible to make a calm, rational evaluation of the vows they are about to take. The Society is deceiving proselytes by this practice.[QUOTE/]

But Alan, weren't we all aware that we were pledging alligance
to the organization being that we acknowledged that it was
comprised of the Faithful and Discreet Slave, that is God appointed
men. Similarly catholics think the Pope is God appointed, right?
I didn't realize, however, that they explicitly demand this [b]only[b/] at
the the very end, minutes before signing on the dotted line.
That is [b]sneaky[b/] but not entirely or blatantly underhanded. This
is so because I remember hearing the sisters that studied with me
always telling me that only JWs had the truth because Jah was directing this organization via the his Holy Spirit via the governing
body.
What is so wrong about imposing oaths of obedience to rules and regulations which an organization wishes be govern by? Don't all
exclusive organizations impose such vows of adherence to the set rules.
As far as preverting the baptismal vows by elongating the whole process, I think this is a valid agrument. However, wouldn't they
have a valid point too if they countered that these are different times which call for different procedures. Back then, they might say,
you didn't have to search through hundreds of Christian groups.
Also, instead of recent miracles to base faith on, today the available
grounds for faith are messianic second coming prophecies, which require extensive study, investigation and reflection, they may argue.

PS, I guess I can't figure out how to work the forum codes, sorry.

84

Bonsai Kitty

by suzi mayhem in

jw
friends

ok.. i know i've been a bit of a buster in the past, but this is for real.

there is a site out there, and apparently a demand, for modified housepets.

in a nutshell, what these ahem... [people] do is take a kitten, sedate it, insert the poor thing into a glass bottle with air holes drilled into it, and run tubes into it to feed it, and tubes into it to take care of everything else.

emyrose

Larc, please stop talking about me torturing you.

What(if any)type of jokes would you be in favor of censoring?
I don't mean outlawing certain humor but rather removing any
support for it via consumer and/or social power.
Do you think it is wrong to advocate censorship of one expression
simply because you are against banning another expression?
Isn't that a harsh set of rules? It's all or nothing. I disagree
that freedom of expression should be in such a preferred position.
There are some things that are more important than absolute freedom
of speech, preserving life for instance. This is precisely why you
can't yell fire in a theater house. So my point is that we can each
have the right to advocate the censorship of material we deem to be
too unexceptable and dangerous. This does not make us hypocritical.
We are simply exercising our right to stand up for what we belief to
be a travesty of justice. In the Bonsai Kitty case it is a protest
against making light of animal cruelty. They can can their tone and
shove it up their asses! I don't care what kind of tone you put on
animal cruelty, it's still reprehensible and plain wrong.

Seeker, I disagree that simply because no one has actually made a
Bonsai Kitten it is okay to joke about it. Animal cruelty exists
regardless. That qualifies as such. With your line of reasoning it
would be okay to joke about how to slowly dismember me so as to derive the most benefit from my organs simply because it hasn't been
done yet. It wouldn't find it funny, not one bit, no matter what the
tone may be.

Dave, I did laugh at the pic. of Alan's head in the bottle.
However, if people starting joking about how to best Bonsai him
and described how to seal his butt with special glue and how
to stick tubes in him and showed pictures of it I would be
nauseated or maybe Nazisated. I almost puked when I saw the tools
for inserting into and cleaning out the kittens' butt on that disgusting web site.