this is podcast 8 in the death or obedience series.. this was recorded on christmas day 2008.. after our last visit from two local elders my wife felt she could no longer be known as a jehovah's witness and had chosen to disassociate herself in november 2008.. we had been on a family holiday and had returned to find that one of the local elders who had visited us had warned off my mother-in-law from having anything to do with my wife - her daughter.
he also made false statements about one of my children.. i decided to confront this elder at the kingdom hall.
this podcast is the recording of our conversation.. notice how he denies making such statements to my mother-in-law and falsely accuses me of teaching her beliefs contrary to jehovah's witnesses.. i ask whether it's a sin to no longer be a jehovah's witness?.
This is how I see it.
When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning? WT 74 15/1 pg 35.
so this morning was the public talk and wt study.
after, we did our usual and went to eat.
the group was mixed ages.
Was moses God's channel? was king david God's channel? were the appostles Gods channel? forgive me but I don't see perfection as a requirement of God's channel? I only see having the blessing of holy spirit guidance which will show up in if your teachings reflect God's word the bible.
Nobody said they had to be perfect to be God's channel hun But when Moses, David and the apostles spoke for God, THEY NEVER GOT IT WRONG! Not once.
The fact that many of the teachings of the Watchtower have caused many thousands of people unnecessary pain and heartache shows that none of these teachings have one ounce of blessing from the Holy Spirit!
Do you think shunning, the breaking up of families, the money forfeited waiting for 1975, the loss of life due to lack of blood, no organ transplants, no vaccinations and many many more doctrines that have been changed or tweaked as "new light" is offered, really reflect guidance by Holy Spirit?
Do you think God deliberatly lied to His channel? If he didn't lie and all this pain isn't God's fault, whose fault is it?
I'll give you a clue shall I? 9 men, cheap suits, musty smell
so this morning was the public talk and wt study.
after, we did our usual and went to eat.
the group was mixed ages.
double post
i couldn't help myself.
it was so obnoxious what the paragraph was saying about apostates.. so i said that having a difference of opinion is not a problem but really as brought out by thessolonians it is when a person raises themselves up above god to have people follow them instead of god that they are considered bad in god's eyes.. i don't even know if it had anything to do with the question, but i just wanted to say that, lol..
Nah, I was gonna rise to the bait with ole Hi Jack but won't waste my time.....
as a result of wanting to have a normal life, away from the dogma of the jw religion,.
many have lost contact with parents, children and in many cases, their spouse.. my divorce was uncontested and i was fortunate enough to get out of from watchtower control with my children.
my parents were never involved with the religion,.
Hopscotch
so this morning was the public talk and wt study.
after, we did our usual and went to eat.
the group was mixed ages.
Wow! I think you handled this really well and backed off just in time - kudos. I like the way you told them it wasn't YOU that brought the subject up but the sister. And you pushed the boundaries just enough to get some thinking.
I liked this bit....
Another sister in group, baptized one year: "Yes, we can ask questions."
Me: "No we can't. It's not right. We can get into trouble, I mean look how everyone is upset with me for asking a question, why? Because it's WRONG."
I bet you really got her thinking about this. Your questions were just strong enough to make the Society sound very controlling and paranoid.
Good one.
i couldn't help myself.
it was so obnoxious what the paragraph was saying about apostates.. so i said that having a difference of opinion is not a problem but really as brought out by thessolonians it is when a person raises themselves up above god to have people follow them instead of god that they are considered bad in god's eyes.. i don't even know if it had anything to do with the question, but i just wanted to say that, lol..
The BORG was the one not only acting as an apostate towards the scriptures, but they elevated themselves ABOVE GOD so as to have people follow them instead of God. Apostates towards the BORG are doing so not to have people follow them, but to shine light upon the very ones causing the divisions and trying to take the place of God.
Excellent comment Cognac, you hit the nail on the head with this.
Reniaa, You are trying to defend an apostate organization. The WTBTS have apostasized from Christianity and set themselves up above God and demand people follow them under pain of disfellowshipping if they don't. So don't go picking at us for exposing them, look at what your defending first, then GET OUT OF HER!
i have been so worked up and worried for years about the end and armageddon that i have headaches, depression, and all kinds of maladies.
been having troubles with it since 4th grade and nothing seems to help.
just being at the kingdom hall is mentally taxing, just anything jw is mentally taxing.
Totally endorse Lady Lee's comments to you my friend. Please please read through her post carefully and listen to what your own body's telling you.
you can review her few comments quickly, as she has made few of them to date.. she is a real fan of mine, borrowing my screen-name partially, and posting exclusively on my threads.
her watchtoweresque style is refreshing is it not?
she seems to believe that i am a total hypocrite - though nailing down her particular point of argument has been challenging.
Welcome AK-REKRUL!!!
Bring it on sis, bring it on......
i appreciate all the advice on here about making friends outside the organization.. i am making new friends, both at work and at school.. but it's not the same as old friends.. my old friends i grew up with.
i sometimes go to the movies with them, dumb movies.
like that night at the museum, smithsonian one.
Its a difficult one Bonafide. Friends are important and old friends valuable in their way. I still miss my old JW friends even though I fluctuate between loving and hating them. I see them most days and they have hurt me deeply by literally turning their backs on me as I passed them, especially hurtful when my mum was fighting cancer and I could've done with a smile from them.
You have to be so so careful here. Think carefully about how you really feel about these friends. What makes them friends? Why are they friends with you? What would happen if you openly disagreed with the Society yet was still the same friendly guy? Would they still be your friend? Would they be able to see beyond this and see the same good mate behind it?
These are really important questions to consider. For heavens sake don't make the costly mistake I made. I genuinely thought my lifelong old JW friends would be able to see I was the same gal they had always loved, just my opinion of the Society had changed. I thought they would understand and accept my change of heart. I didn't expect to "convert" anyone, and wasn't planning a campaign to let everyone know my thoughts. I kept my opinion very low-key and didn't discuss my views with anyone outside my family.
I da'd due to elders getting twitchy because I was attending a christian housegroup. Since that time, not one single dear "friend" has spoken to me. Not a single one. None of them has asked me for my reasons and none of them showed me any fellow feeling when mum was ill. Without exception, the friends I thought I had turned out to be the worst kind.
I am bitterly disappointed in them and deeply hurt by their lack of love yet my own naievty is also to blame here too. The friendships I thought were based on many years spent together, shared experiences, good times, intimate conversations and shared confidences weren't based on these things at all. They were totally conditional on me being a JW.
This experience has been a painful lesson for me, very painful. So don't be naive. If you want to keep these friends, then remain a Witness at all costs, for you won't be able to have one without the other. If however you want true friendships, friendships that are based on the person you are, not on what you believe, then you have to start widening out now.
This is what I did and I've since found a group of really great friends who I haven't known very long (2-3 years) but we've had the best of times. And whats more important, they like me because I'm me, not because of what I believe.
