BTW, where is your web site Needproof? I didn't see anything in your profile about it. I found the forum thru Tallpenguin's blog (Austin Cline linked to it in one of his articles) and enjoy that kinda stuff.
IsaacJ
IsaacJS2
JoinedPosts by IsaacJS2
-
17
The 6 Qualities That "Prove" The WT Is The True Religion
by IsaacJS2 inthis is a cleaned up version of the post i made a week or so back.
some might find it useful in dealing with overzealous witnesses determined to show you the error of your ways.. ===================================================.
the 6 qualities that "prove" the wt is the true religion.
-
-
-
17
The 6 Qualities That "Prove" The WT Is The True Religion
by IsaacJS2 inthis is a cleaned up version of the post i made a week or so back.
some might find it useful in dealing with overzealous witnesses determined to show you the error of your ways.. ===================================================.
the 6 qualities that "prove" the wt is the true religion.
-
-
IsaacJS2
Needproof,
Feel free to use any article of mine you would like. But I do want to find out if I misunderstood the changes in military service or not. I will alter the list somewhat to shift the focus back to it's original form before I had that misunderstanding. If I did, in fact, misunderstand.
I can't find the post where I first saw it or the article in the WT-CD Library. Not sure how I got that wrong if I did. Anyone know which post or article I mean?
IsaacJ
-
17
The 6 Qualities That "Prove" The WT Is The True Religion
by IsaacJS2 inthis is a cleaned up version of the post i made a week or so back.
some might find it useful in dealing with overzealous witnesses determined to show you the error of your ways.. ===================================================.
the 6 qualities that "prove" the wt is the true religion.
-
-
IsaacJS2
I thought the policy on military service changed so that it was entirely a matter of conscience? Wasn't there a post a while back on that--I can't seem to find it now. If I'm wrong about that, I need to alter the list and my essay.
IsaacJ
-
22
WoW I got the new campaign tract it sucks.
by 5go init's an overglorifed memorial invitation.
it's only one page it looks like someone made it at home.
they handed them out at the service meeting.
-
-
IsaacJS2
I'm with Truthsetsonefree. When I decided I was done with the Society I never set foot in a KH again. Not even for the precious Memorial. I think I was working at Sears the first time I missed one. There was another Witness working there and he was shocked.
I always thought it was weird that the submarines ever bothered going back to the Memorial. It was supposed to be for the anointed anyway, not the great crowd so much. At the time, I thought the whole thing was a way of suckering inactives like me back into the Hall so they could give us a hard time.
IsaacJ
-
28
What is Gnosticism and why do Christians dislike it ?
by 5go inaside from the fact that gnosis is greek for knowledge.
two things christians seem to dislike greeks(think animal house) and knowledge (other than knowledge of the christ of course).
seeing as they practice a form of it anyway.. gnostics believe that they have secret knowledge about god, humanity and the rest of the universe of which the general population was unaware.
-
-
IsaacJS2
Zagor,
Good points. I have to confess that I'm a "writer wannabe" and I've been thinking about a group of characters that have formed Gnostic-style Christian sect. Your point about them always chasing that next bit of knowledge was a helpful idea. Thanks.
IsaacJ
-
28
What is Gnosticism and why do Christians dislike it ?
by 5go inaside from the fact that gnosis is greek for knowledge.
two things christians seem to dislike greeks(think animal house) and knowledge (other than knowledge of the christ of course).
seeing as they practice a form of it anyway.. gnostics believe that they have secret knowledge about god, humanity and the rest of the universe of which the general population was unaware.
-
-
IsaacJS2
I happen to be listening to a lecture by Bart Erhman called "Lost Christianities". The Gnostics are among those he talkes about. I didn't think that anyone was practiticing it today, though. It wasn't that long ago that many of the Gnostic writings were finally discovered. In their own time, the Gnostics were rivals to the proto-orthodox church, so the two groups naturally saw each other as heretics. You know how that goes.
From what I've heard from the lecture so far, the Gnostics divided people into 3 categories (just like the WTS). People who had the divine spark of the goddess Sophia within them and were destined for heaven (like the anointed). People who apparently had souls but were of lesser status than the first group (like the great crowd, though they seemed to have a spiritual afterlife of some sort). And then those who were souless animals (worldly people). But the Gnostics believed that Yahweh was an evil Old Testament deity, not the One True God.
I've also been learning about the Ebionites and the followers of Marcius. I found it very interesting. Some of the early Christians believed in some really different stuff. There was also a group of Apocalyptic Jews who believed in an earthly resurrection, just like the Society.
IsaacJ
-
17
The 6 Qualities That "Prove" The WT Is The True Religion
by IsaacJS2 inthis is a cleaned up version of the post i made a week or so back.
some might find it useful in dealing with overzealous witnesses determined to show you the error of your ways.. ===================================================.
the 6 qualities that "prove" the wt is the true religion.
-
-
IsaacJS2
This is a cleaned up version of the post I made a week or so back. Some might find it useful in dealing with overzealous Witnesses determined to show you the error of your ways.
===================================================
The 6 Qualities That "Prove" The WT Is The True Religion
I have actually found 6 "proofs" I felt were worth mentioning. Five were contained within a single book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach?" under the heading "How To Identify The True Religion." These are used to prove that the Society is the True Religion. Here they are, with a brief evaluation of each. Had a little trouble getting it posted and formatted, but it should have fewer errors and such.
1. God's servants base their teachings on the Bible.
This merely limits the playing field to Christianity. There's more than 1500 denominations in the U.S. alone as I understand it. There is no reliable, objective way to know which of them teaches the most accurate theology.
2. Those who practice the true religion worship only Jehovah and make his name known.Jehovah is a transliteration of Yahweh, but the WT calls God by the name Jehovah. This would actually seem to disqualify the Society from consideration. (Hey, they're the ones who brought the list to our attention!) But the Society reasons that "Jehovah" is better due to consistency with common usage. I have to disagree. It doesn't say that "The true religion will spread the name of God...or whatever name they prefer is also fine, too." That undermines the whole point. But if consistency is what they want, Jesus used "father" and "God" far more than he used "Yahweh" in the Bible. What better example of consistency can there be than Jesus' own? And when he taught his disciples how to pray, Jesus used "father," not "Yahweh" or "Jehovah." As far as spreading his knowledge through the door-to-door ministry, several denominations engage in this as well, and the Catholics alone have converted millions with their early missionary works throughout history, either directly or indirectly. Not to mention other Protestant missionary efforts. Christianity is the largest religion in the world today thanks to denominations that precede the WT by centuries. When seen this way, the Catholic Church has surely converted far more people than the Society has.
3. God's people show genuine, unselfish love for one another.
The article focuses on refusal to serve in the military as their greatest example. But now, the Society allows this! There are still other religions that totally refuse military service. They would seem to be better examples of this virtue. After all, it doesn't say, "unselfish love for one another unless Caesar asks you to kill Christians and other people." The Society also eschews other goodly works, like charities, while shunning those who are spiritually weak or who disagree with their Governing Body. This would actually seem to go against this principle.
4. True Christians accept Jesus Christ as God's means of salvation.
Don't all Christians claim to do this?
5. True worshipers are no part of the world.
The Society is hardly the only one that can claim this. In fact, the Anabaptist faiths like Mennonites, Amish, and Hutterites do it better. The Church of God and Christadelphians go about it in a similar fashion to the Society. All 5 refuse to serve in the world's armies, (which the Society used to do) and they avoid political entanglements. Note that their are other denominations the claim to fulfill this requirement in one sense or another.
6. If a person is loved by God, he will be hated by the world.
The Mormons, Waldensians, and the Anabaptist faiths (Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites) have suffered as badly as the Witnesses. The latter two were persecuted and executed for centuries by the Catholic Church and the governments of their day. In fact, most small, "cult-like" sects have suffered some forms of hatred, are no part of the world, and avoid military service.
In the end, the list is too vague to be truly useful. None of them point to the Society alone and a couple even cast doubt on their claims. The Society's "proofs" are nothing of the kind.
IsaacJ -
7
Just Got One of THOSE Letters...
by brunnhilde inmy mom just sent me one.
you know, we love you so much; we don't want to lose you; don't risk your precious little boy's life; blah blah blah, garbage blah dronetalk.
made me so angry i can't even talk about it.
-
-
IsaacJS2
I have posted my little theory about this sort of thing in the Bible Research and Study Articles section. It's a much shorter version of the one in the essay I keep whining about. To be honest, I really don't think they do this for us so much as for themselves. They are looking for reassurance that their worldview is correct. If they have to, they'll try to get some reaction out of you that they can interpret as a sign that you regret your choices. So goes my theory at any rate.
If you let them hurt your feelings or see how outraged you are, they'll twist those signs into something that supports their point of view. Try acting calm and just sort of brush the whole thing off as if it didn't faze you in the slightest. (That goes for everyone who has to deal with this sort of crap) This shows them that you are happy with your new life and that you aren't seeking their approval because you don't need it. Simply tell them calmly how it is...or even worse, pity them instead of letting them pity you. After all, you wouldn't be pitying them unless you saw yourself in a much better place, right? But they want you to feel as if they are the ones in the right. They want to be above you.
I bet they'll wig out if you write or call to thank them for their concern, but tell them not to bother. Everything's great and you couldn't be happier. Then ask if there's anything you can do for them. "Yeah, I know how it was for me when I was in the Society. I worry about you guys sometimes..."
See what I mean?
IsaacJ
-
22
WoW I got the new campaign tract it sucks.
by 5go init's an overglorifed memorial invitation.
it's only one page it looks like someone made it at home.
they handed them out at the service meeting.
-
-
IsaacJS2
Ah crap. Wonder if my in-laws will suddenly start crawling out of the woodworks now.
Then again, I rarely see them any more.
I've heard the quality of the lit has really gone downhill. In my time, the Society had a major obsession with impressing new people and trying to get them on board. Now, they seem to be hoarding their gold. I think it's like a big corp. that branches out ever so many years, then pulls back to conserve its resources. Don't be surprised if they shift priorities again in another 10 years.
IsaacJ
-
7
The Delusion of Certitude
by IsaacJS2 inthe delusion of certitude pt 1. and how we, the "the lost sheep," help them maintain it.
no one has enough information about the universe to truly know if they have "the truth.
" to me, anyone who claims to have the absolute, ultimate truth of everything is literally claiming to have absolute knowledge.
-
-
IsaacJS2
The Delusion Of Certitude PT 1
And How We, The "The Lost Sheep," Help Them Maintain It
No one has enough information about the universe to truly know if they have "The Truth." To me, anyone who claims to have the absolute, ultimate truth of everything is literally claiming to have absolute knowledge. Yet this is simply beyond our grasp. All we do have is a highly subjective worldview. Still, that doesn't stop us from craving The Truth. We also desire control, and believe it or not, I think the Witnesses have another catch-phrase I'd like to introduce: the illusion of choice.
I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses (and other people with extreme, absolutist worldviews) are addicted to this false sense of certitude. They have convinced themselves that their worldview is the only one that could possibly be The Truth. The Watchtower's system of things is designed to reinforce this easily fractured ideology. I think many of us have little trouble believing that one, so I won't go into too much detail. But while the meetings and literature go a long ways toward reinforcing their worldview every other day of every week of their lives, I think that field service is the real key.
There are generally 3 possible outcomes at every door a Witness knocks on. Either no one is home (the most common outcome) they aren't interested (the 2nd most likely outcome) or they find someone who wants to know more (the rarest outcome). Surprising as it may sound, I think all 3 of these plays a big part in strengthening their worldview.
1) The householder isn't home. Many of us have breathed a sigh of relief when we hit one of these. But here's something you may not have thought of. I believe that field service, along with meeting attendance and obedience to the Society, actually give the Witness the illusion of choice. By carrying out the ritual of the door to door work, along with the other commitments I mentioned, the Witness is actively electing for the only positive future they can believe in. As all ex-Witnesses know, the Society's ideology allows for only two possible outcomes: eternal life, or death when this system comes to an end. (Which could happen any second now...) So even when there's no one home, the Witness is doing what they must to choose life. To them, we're the ones who are condemned to a life or slavery. In order to remain in control, they must constantly reaffirm their choice over and over throughout their lives.
2) The householder is home, but not interested. I don't think most Witnesses are too bothered by this. As far as they're concerned, they did what they had to do in order to choose life. Yet when the householder gave that inner groan we've all seen as soon as they recognize the cheap suits and the handbags, the Witness knows they aren't really listening. As a Witness might say, their heart is closed to the Good News. Since the householder isn't really giving their message a chance, their refusal doesn't bother the Witness in the slightest. "They can't see how right I am if they won't give it a chance!" So the householder's rejection doesn't cause any doubt. And even if this outcome isn't immediately apparent when the person opens the door, the Witness just shrugs it off as the householder's loss. By contrast, they are reminded of how great it is to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses instead of being "like those worldly people." After all, the person had their chance for eternal life and chose badly. Right? Meanwhile, the Witness is still actively choosing life with each meeting they attend and every door they knock on. Like I said, the Witnesses feel they are in control and they are gladdened by their worldview even as they feel pity for poor slobs like us. They can't imagine backsliding and giving it all up.
3) The household is home and interested in their Truth! Here we have the Holy Grail. The Witness's time and effort has been appreciated, making them feel charitable and wise. This is a person who gets it. "See, I knew we weren't crazy!" They feel empowered and vindicated by this. If they begin a Bible study with the householder, this feeling is renewed every single time they so much as think about it. And soon, they'll have another new face (there are always new faces here or there) that shares in their absolutist worldview. The more new faces, the better. They feel like they are making progress toward their goal of eternal life--the goal they have chosen for themselves by serving the Watchtower Society.
These are the basics I wanted to get you thinking about. (Shortened, believe it or not, from the original) But here's the big part: We, the "lost sheep," actually play into their need for certitude. I think this explains why Witnesses behave so bizarrely around us. After all, most of them take it personally for no good reason and behave very badly. Their actions will obviously do more to push us away from their True Religion than pull us in. Yet they can't seem to help themselves. I think I can answer why in part 2.
IsaacJ