Posts by beginnersmind

33

Logic and the fallacy of 1914

by neverendingjourney in

logic dictates that to prove a conclusion you must break it down into its individual parts and prove each individual element.. for instance, i can prove that 2+2=4.

i can also prove that 4 - 1 = 3 and that 3+10= 13. therefore, i can definitely prove my conclusion that that 2+2-1+10=13.. however, i would be unable to prove that 2+z-1+10=13.

because one of the elements, z-1, is unverifiable.

With the fear of incurring your wrath I agree with Farkel's first post about "not being able to prove 2+z-1+10=13". As you can prove z in that equation it renders it useless in trying to use that specific equation in the illustration imho. However the general mathmatical equation you used u+v+w+x+y+z=1914 to illustrate the absurdity of reaching 1914 I wholeheartedly agree with.

You said, "are you content with making your point by attacking the form of my argument instead of its substance?" Obviously this wasnt to me but theres no need to be so defensive. Even though I disagree with a small part of your post I still think you make a very good point. Its all good.

4

Eyeless vision - Ronald Coyne's eyeless-vision act

by VM44 in

eyeless vision - ronald coyne's eyeless-vision act.

martin gardner for four decades ronald coyne (pronounced "coin"), a pentecostal preacher who lives in my hometown of tulsa, oklahoma, has been wowing church groups with what magicians call an "eyeless vision" act, but first a little background.. for centuries conjurors have known how difficult it is to blindfold a person so effectively that he or she cannot obtain a peek down the side of the nose.

noses project so far from the cheekbones that an opaque blindfold, covering nose and eyes, invariably leaves two tiny loopholes.

beginnersmind

Thanks for the posts. I found them interesting.

23

BBC Radio 5 Live recording and transcript

by IT Support in

thanks for your call, peter.

should a doctor be able to override a patients wishes?.

lets take just one more call before we let you go.

beginnersmind

Thanks for posting this much appreciated.

4

Is there a big announcement in the October WT or Awake?

by zenpunk in

apparently my mother in law decided to stop tivo-ing her episodes of coronation street because of something she read in the magazine, but would not share with her apostate son and his wife.

any ideas what it could be?

she said it was big news that changed her thinking on a lot of things, including the fact that she would not give us a ride down to london to visit her other son, who happens to be gay and proud.

beginnersmind

Regarding soaps it was talked about again in a recent mag because I remember reading it. Cant remember exactly where though. Not sure that would alter her thinking on lots of other things though. I will have to search it out again.

50

When Elders go too Far...

by BigBloomerz in

this is just something that really peed me off regarding the elders, is how low they are sinking to get gossip and stuff now, i was in contact with a well trusted friend of mine who used to attend meetings up until 2 years ago, his wife is still in the jw org, he was having a joke around on some text messages with me regarding my man saying "try before you buy" and so on, which i found amusing....lets just say his wife didnt...she snooped on his phone, wrote out the texts he had sent me and gave the transcript to the elders, and now he has to go before a judicial commitee.

how wrong is that, for a start its an invasion of privacy!

i was fuming yesterday when i found out.

beginnersmind

Thanks for sharing your experience. Like I said before ive not experienced it myself but I dont doubt it does happen.

you get ratted out the first time........... could be a chance thing............ after the 17th time...... i woulda thought that the elders would have told her to piss off knowing that i wasnt doing what she was accuseing. lol especially since they were useing me as a MS and trying to make me start giving hour talks. i would hope that if those accusations which i generally was able to show to be trumped up or out right ficticuous would have gotten those PRIVLEDGES removed from me if they had any reason to truely suspect me.

Yeah that does sound strange. I wonder wether she was ever taken in the back room for her behaviour. As a jw when you see another do something wrong and the first thought is "I must report this to an elder" I wonder what percentage of that is to see them get help and what percentage is too see them get in trouble especially if you dont like them lol.

50

When Elders go too Far...

by BigBloomerz in

this is just something that really peed me off regarding the elders, is how low they are sinking to get gossip and stuff now, i was in contact with a well trusted friend of mine who used to attend meetings up until 2 years ago, his wife is still in the jw org, he was having a joke around on some text messages with me regarding my man saying "try before you buy" and so on, which i found amusing....lets just say his wife didnt...she snooped on his phone, wrote out the texts he had sent me and gave the transcript to the elders, and now he has to go before a judicial commitee.

how wrong is that, for a start its an invasion of privacy!

i was fuming yesterday when i found out.

beginnersmind

Beroean & primitivegenius dont you think its possible that in one cong some elders might be into this spying lark and in another they are not? I dont think you can generalise and say just because something does or doesnt happen in your cong its the same in every cong.

after i left that cult they tried to have a witness that lived in the same apartment building look out to see if she could catch me doing anything. every time i would come home she would be looking to see if i was bringing a woman to my place.

Are you sure she just wasnt just a nosey jw? Ive known plenty! I have not come across elders organising spying but I can only speak from my own experience. Just because I havent seen it with my own eyes doesnt mean it doesnt happen and cause me not believe someone who says it does.

100

Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

by serotonin_wraith in

so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

beginnersmind

I wasn't rescued by a Russian ship. I called a Christian help line based on divine direction. I could share dozens of other "coincidences" and mini-miracles that have confirmed for me that God does intervene in my life, but I won't share them here. I wouldn't want to be laughed at.

I think youve misunderstood me. I was agreeing with your answer and then attempting to show 'S' how a person could basically use the same analogy in attempting to prove Gods existence but would be laughed at by non believers even though its as good a reasoning as the one it was originally meant to be used for. Do you understand what I mean? Its my fault for not making it clear. Just to make it absolutely clear I believe you 100% and would never laugh at you or the experiences youve had.

100

Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

by serotonin_wraith in

so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

beginnersmind

jgnat

If you were drowning in the ocean, and a russian ship saved you, would you be obliged to become a russian citizen and make their culture your own? What if it had been an oil tanker from djibuti, whose crew all worshipped allah? Many people who go through 12 step programs make that a sort of religion for themselves. Others, that go through the steps, take more steps, keep the good, and move on w their lives.

Perhaps not, but I would be forever grateful to the russians. I also could not doubt their existence.

jgnat thats what I was thinking. Based on that analogy from the perspective of a believer in God one could ask, if you were drowning in the ocean, and a Russian ship saved you would you doubt the existence of the Russian ship? But if I used that to 'prove' the existence of God I would be laughed at.

6

When Elders Take Congregation Funds

by zack in

health care/vehicle/ etc..... usaully there is no great discussion involved, the service department sets a quota and the elders' rubber stamp it.

they then form this.

into a "resolution" for the general congregation which they present at the service meeting.

beginnersmind

These resolutions for money always used to bug me. I have never seen anyone question one or vote against one. I always thought to myself I should put my hand up to object to see what would happen just for the sake of it but of course I never did. I came close once though when the elder made it clear they had already given the money before the resolution. When I say close I mean I muttered under my breath a bit louder than normal.

18

Purple triangle monopoly

by 5go in

this is one i would love to see busted.. jw were not the only ones to get a purple triangle in the nazi camps.

i bet they were not even the majority of the ones to receive them.. .

the purple triangle was a nazi concentration camp badge used by the nazis to identify several un-orthodox religious groups known as "bibelforscher".

beginnersmind

I kinda agree with your comments more specifically your final ones. Although your reasoning seems to be and correct me if im wrong that because the other victims of massacres have 'gotten on with their lifes' so should the Jewish people. I dont think we can compare and say they should all behave the same way. I think they should all equally be remembered but the Jewish Holocaust is the biggest and most well known so maybe thats why its the most prominent. Dont forget they also have a long history of horrendous persecution.

I dont know wether this was what you were trying to say in some indirect way but some people do have a persecution complex and harp on about how they are being treated and link it back to events that happened years ago not in their lifetime when its nothing to do with it. I know a person like this. However theres probably people like that in lots of races, religions etc.

I know for one i'll be teaching my children about the wrongs of all these Holocausts not just what happened in the nazi one. The saying that most are probably familiar with that 'those who dont remember history are condemned to repeat it' is I think the most important reason for all of us to never forget and make sure others dont as well.