Posts by neverendingjourney

21

Did Anyone See the Nightline Special on Scientology?

by neverendingjourney in

jw
friends

i looked to see if there had been a thread started about this already, but i couldn't find one.

anyway, i just finished watching the nightline special on scientology.

martin bashir (the guy who did the michael jackson interview that brought about the second child molestation complaint) interviewed a spokesman for scientology and 3 former high-ranking sea org members.

neverendingjourney

The only true path and the disconnect aspects remind me of the jws.

There are a lot similarities, aren't there? It's sad because JWs are even stricter than Scientologists with respect to shunning. Scientologists only disconnect former members who are antagonistic to the church. JWs disfellowship members who do not live according to their rules, regardless of whether they believe the WT has the "truth" or not.

Was this the one where the CSI spokesperson walks out on the interviewer because he asked about Zenu the alien?

Yes. Bashir asked him repeatedly about the Xenu story. At first, the spokesman pretended to be offended, and then he just walked off. Why a church spokesman would be offended when asked to clarify church doctrine makes no sense, unless of course you understand that he's trying to deflect the question. The spokesman doesn't want to admit that his church has secret doctrines that are available only to advanced members who have paid thousands of dollars for the privilege.

21

Did Anyone See the Nightline Special on Scientology?

by neverendingjourney in

jw
friends

i looked to see if there had been a thread started about this already, but i couldn't find one.

anyway, i just finished watching the nightline special on scientology.

martin bashir (the guy who did the michael jackson interview that brought about the second child molestation complaint) interviewed a spokesman for scientology and 3 former high-ranking sea org members.

neverendingjourney

I looked to see if there had been a thread started about this already, but I couldn't find one. Anyway, I just finished watching the Nightline special on Scientology. Martin Bashir (the guy who did the Michael Jackson interview that brought about the second child molestation complaint) interviewed a spokesman for Scientology and 3 former high-ranking Sea Org members. There were several fascinating elements to the special. Something that really struck me was how similar Tom Cruise's current demeanor is to that of the church's leader, David Miscavige. It's as if Tom Cruise has meticulously modeled himself after the guy. Pretty creepy.

For those of you who haven't seen it, here's the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/scientology/

I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned here for those inclined to "bring down the Watchtower." This was a major piece of journalism given wide exposure on a popular news program over 2 days. Two full shows were dedicated to Scientology. They brought on 3 high-ranking former members who outlined well-documented and credible complaints of hypocrisy and physical violence from the Church's leader, and yet the Church of Scientology still stands today relatively unaffected. Maybe their ability to recruit future members was hurt somewhat by the show, but there was no spectacular eye-opening moment that caused Scientologists to leave the church en masse.

Unfortunately, it takes a lot more than that to "bring down" a religious organization. JWs simply lack the number of motivated high-ranking former members willing to speak out about the religion. Also, the public is not nearly as interested in the Watchtower because JWs lack the celebrity factor that Scientology possesses. Would people be that interested in Scientology if it weren't for Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Will Smith, et al? Probably not.

If you saw the show, what were your impressions? Did you find an eerie parallel with Jehovah's Witnesses?

49

30 Years Old and Going on My First Date Ever -- Urgent Advice Needed

by neverendingjourney in

well, first a quick summary of who i am.

i'm 30 years old.

i was raised "in the truth" and fully embraced the faith when i was a teenager.

neverendingjourney

that is essentially why I went on eHarmony

You and I started posting on here right around the same time, if I remember correctly. I followed your story for a while, but for the past 6 months or so I haven't been keeping up with JWD as much as I used to. I just find myself having less of an interest in all things JW. JWism at times feels like a distant memory. It's just that reality decides to bitch slap me in the face every now and then, like with the this whole dating thing, for instance.

I remember reading some of your posts a while back where you mentioned going on some dates via E-Harmony. I also remember reading about your new g/f, although I had no idea you were engaged. Congratulations! I know you were considering sending in a D/A/ letter. Did you go ahead with those plans or did you decide to let things be? I must have missed your update posts on that. Anyhow, I appreciate your advice. Wish me luck.

10

John Doe & other leagles: Is JW Supreme Court record LAW 101?

by Open mind in

the jw urban legend i've heard my whole life is that first-year law students routinely hear about the jw's record before the u.s. supreme court.. .

what was your experience?.

om.

neverendingjourney

The curriculum in a constitutional law class varies greatly depending on the professor. If the professor chooses to spend a great deal of time on the First Amendment, then the 1st year law student might very well be exposed to a case or two dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses. It's doubtful Jehovah's Witnesses would get prominent treatment in a first-year class, though. If JWs are covered at all, it would likely appear in the casebook editors' notes that follow excerpts from seminal court decisions.

The only way a law student would be exposed to cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses in any great detail would be if the student decides to take an elective focusing on constitutional law as is relates to religion and the First Amendment. I can confidently say Jehovah's Witnesses do not get any extensive treatment in first-year con law classes. Like I said above, con law curriculum varies from professor to professor, so it may be that a particular professor in some law school somewhere might choose to cover JWs in some detail, but that is generally not standard practice. The notion that most law students graduate knowing all about how important Jehovah's Witnesses were to development of religious freedoms is simply not true.

To put things in the proper perspective, the Mormons had U.S. Supreme Court cases that were much more fundamental to the development of the law and American history in general. For example, The Late Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints v. United States was a 1890 case that upheld the Edmunds-Tucker Act. The Edmunds-Tucker Act disincorporated the Mormon Church and allowed for the Church's assets to be seized by the federal government. The U.S. Supreme Court (applying dubious legal analysis) upheld the Act and the federal government moved forward to take away the Mormon Church's property. Months after this ruling, in a reversal of long-held previous practice, the Mormon Church prohibited polygamy, which led to a reversal in the federal government's plan to take away the Church's property. Utah had not been admitted into the United States because of the Mormon Church's polygamy practice, but it was accepted into the Union soon after the change. This case was important because the Supreme Court legitimized the federal government's authority to destroy a religious denomination. The result was a complete reversal on polygamy by the Church of LDS, which resulted in the admittance of Utah a state in the Union.

This Mormon case makes JW door-knocking and flag-saluting cases look petty and insignificant by comparison.

49

30 Years Old and Going on My First Date Ever -- Urgent Advice Needed

by neverendingjourney in

well, first a quick summary of who i am.

i'm 30 years old.

i was raised "in the truth" and fully embraced the faith when i was a teenager.

neverendingjourney

Be affectionate but do not kiss her goodnight.

I don't plan to go in for the kiss unless I sense a really strong connection. I think women are very nervous on internet dates because you never know who the other person really is, and rightfully so. I'll save that for later dates.

the Botchtower Corporation experts!

Listening to those guys...what a fantastic way to screw up a relationship! Their dating advice sounds like you're seeking out a business partner, not a lover.

Bring a sweet bouquet or a single daisy or rose.

I'm thinking of bringing along a single yellow rose. Hopefully that won't come across as desperate or tacky.

Talk about the NEW WORLD ORDER and how 9/11 was an inside job.

I met her on E-Harmony, not a Ron Paul convention.

As a lot of people know here I met Mrs. Flipper on E-harmony-been happily married 3 years.

I remember reading your posts describing how you met your wife. That's wonderful! I'm not necessarily looking for a wife. I just want to get some real life dates under my belt so I can get to that point. I have some complaints about E-Harmony, but that's a whole other thread.

Turning up with a single rose would be a nice touch. Not cheesy and it doesn't overdo it. Just shows that you're a gentleman :)

Thanks for the advice!

21

Did you ever feel dissatisfied by the quality of 'proof' from the FDS?

by bohm in

jw
friends

hey!.

i have tried to debate evolution/ark a couple of times with witnesses.

two of these were elders, and one had the benefit of conversing with me over mail; he also showed an interest and knowledge on some scientific subjects that told me he had studied it a bit by himself.

neverendingjourney

I think the thought process is pretty much what I outlined above. Your average JW who actually cares about doctrine believes that allowing oneself to entertain ideas critical of the WTBTS and their teachings is sinful and extremely dangerous to one's spiritual well-being. Adam and Eve were perfect people. Despite this, Satan was able to deceive Eve and convince Adam to follow suit and disobey God. If Satan could deceive perfect human being, how easy would it be for him to deceive us mere mortals?

With this in mind, you learn to quickly disregard critical points of view. The WT likens these thoughts to poison that can infiltrate our system and destroy us spiritually. Apostates are villified, regarded as despicable, and hold the lowest rank in the JW hierarchy. The supersticious are led to believe that entertaining apostate ideas opens the door for the Satan's demons.

The most you can do is add to the list of doubts the person refuses to entertain and hope that if/when that particular individual is ready to think for himself, he will look back and take your comments into consideration. The bottom line is, if a JW is a firm beliver and locked into the the WT's mind control, there's precious little you can do. A JW's mission is not to critically consider all the evidence and reach the most logical conclusion. It's to be a zealous advocate for the WTBTS.

49

30 Years Old and Going on My First Date Ever -- Urgent Advice Needed

by neverendingjourney in

well, first a quick summary of who i am.

i'm 30 years old.

i was raised "in the truth" and fully embraced the faith when i was a teenager.

neverendingjourney

I know you, dear heart, and most women would be thrilled to spend time with you.

Thanks for the kind words, Jamie. I need to call you to get some advise before the big date.

21

Did you ever feel dissatisfied by the quality of 'proof' from the FDS?

by bohm in

jw
friends

hey!.

i have tried to debate evolution/ark a couple of times with witnesses.

two of these were elders, and one had the benefit of conversing with me over mail; he also showed an interest and knowledge on some scientific subjects that told me he had studied it a bit by himself.

neverendingjourney

What did you do? Did you just shrug it off as yourself not having enough understanding of the FDS's arguments? That satan was pulling the strings? That the FDS was 'dumbing down' things to make it easier for some to understand?

To be fair, when I bought into the JW belief system, I was 15 years old. This was back in the mid 90s when the internet was in its infancy and not widely available. I couldn't simply google "Life. How did it get here? By evolution or creation?" and read a critique of the arguments presented therein.

To a sophmore in high school, the arguments presented in that book were solid. I lived in an echo chamber of like-minded individuals who encouraged those beliefs. Any non-JWs who disagreed either lacked the knowledge or the desire to argue with me. Once I took the bait, it wasn't easy to go back. The JW belief system taught that we were imperfect men and could easily be led astray by Satan the Devil. After all, he had been able to lead perfect people astray.

Therefore, I refused to entertain any information that contradicted official JW doctrine. If the Society said that Noah's ark had enough room in it to hold sufficient "types" of animals to produce the diversity of wildlife available today, I accepted it. The Society had demonstrated their credibility to me by "debunking" a myriad of "false doctrines." If something didn't make perfect sense, I reasoned that science was a work in progress. Science books of 50 years ago contained many ideas that were considered wrong by today's standards. I felt that, over time, new scientifice discoveries would result in scientific theories more in line with what the Bible taught.

I don't know what would have happened had the internet been widely available around the time I decided to embrace JWism. I did research JWs from the material that was available to me at the time. I went into my high school library and read encyclopedia entries about them. This wasn't of much use. One of them, I remember, was written by Fred Franz. The library didn't have copies of Crisis of Conscience or similar books written by XJWs. Even if it had, I'm sure they would have been stolen and dumped in the garbage by zealous JWs.

It's no use crying over spilled milk now. I took the bait and paid for by giving the WTBTS my teenage years and early 20s. I disregarded evidence that the JWs didn't in fact have the truth until it was just too much to bear. When the time came, I allowed myself to entertain the doubts that I had discarded earlier in my life, and it all began to make sense. When I finally got to the point where I felt comfortable reading material critical of the WT, my doubts were validated, and I crossed the point of no return. It's not an easy place to get to. The WTBTS does a very good job of convincing adherent to reject anything critical of "the organization."

49

30 Years Old and Going on My First Date Ever -- Urgent Advice Needed

by neverendingjourney in

well, first a quick summary of who i am.

i'm 30 years old.

i was raised "in the truth" and fully embraced the faith when i was a teenager.

neverendingjourney

as far as the single mom thing...how long is she out of a long-term relationship?....

I haven't gone there yet. I prefer to leave this topic up to when we actually meet in person. It's high on my list of things I want to find out from her, but I don't want to bombard her with personal questions up front. It's important to create a sense of attraction before getting into the nitty gritty of things, so to speak.

While on the date, make sure you sometimes tease her a bit... this will let her know you are not needy and you have a sense of humor. If she does something clumsy make sure you roll your eyes and say something like "OMG! Are you always that clumsy?" :P

This is a concept known as "negging." Apparently it works wonders. "Hi. I love your outfit. You know, I saw a girl at the last club wearing the same exact thing." It's a strategy to use women's low self-esteem against them. It's supposed to work well with women who are used to getting a lot of attention. When they meet a guy who "negs" them, they're supposed to instinctively try to earn his affection because their low self-esteem prompts them to gain the affection and interest of every man around them.

I've been tempted to try this out, but it seems geared towards young, club-hopping women with low self-esteem, the kind of girls who are no strangers to one night stands. I'm not really interested in that type of girl, though, nor do I really think that these kinds of "games" work all that well with mature women.

49

30 Years Old and Going on My First Date Ever -- Urgent Advice Needed

by neverendingjourney in

well, first a quick summary of who i am.

i'm 30 years old.

i was raised "in the truth" and fully embraced the faith when i was a teenager.

neverendingjourney

When I was single, the last thing I wanted people to know was that I had been a JW.

I feel the same way. I'll lay off the heavy subjects for sure: politics, religion, etc. are off limits.

I'm impressed with your spelling!

Thanks. I can't stand reading posts dat luk lik dis.

A. Have made an effort to make a wide variety of new friends, you have social skills.

B. Have developed new hobbies and interests, you have things to talk about....

I feel that I have been able to do both of those things. I think I got comfortable being single and just preferred to avoid the embarrassment and difficulty of taking on the dating challenge. Hopefully, I'm on my way to changing that.