neverendingjourney
JoinedPosts by neverendingjourney
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26
Encounter with JW's on the Street
by OnTheWayOut ini was pushing my sister's wheelchair as we were enjoying the perfect .
saturday noon weather.
we were going to a local restaurant to get .
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Facebook is a menace to the fading JW! (and society in general)
by slimboyfat inmark zuckerberg says that the philosophy of facebook is that people only have one identity.
i think then it's fair to say he couldn't have had jws leading a double life in mind.. i was careful not to add any jws to my page, so i thought i should not have any problems.
i did however add friends and family, including family members who are former witnesses and some who are related to current witnesses.
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neverendingjourney
It sounds more like a post hoc pseudo-philosophical justification for the pre-existing architecture of the site.
I've been on facebook for 4 years. Back when I signed up, it was the anti-myspace. By that I mean, myspace had zero privacy controls. If you wanted to be on myspace, ALL of your information had to be public. Facebook had very tight privacy controls. You couldn't even register if you didn't have a .edu email address, and only people who were in your network could interact with you.
Facebook has now become the new myspace, minus the annoying customized backgrounds. They have become what they initially despised, and there's a lot of historical revisionism within that company to paint their move away from their roots as something other than an expedient money-grabbing ploy.
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33
IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM - Ray Franz
by compound complex indear friends, .
some have expressed interest in the above title and their wish to have it for themselves.
the chapter of particular importance to many of us is "legalism - opponent of christian freedom.
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neverendingjourney
I've already read Combating Cult Mind Control, Crisis of Conscience and Apocalypse Delayed.
I picked up In Search of Christian Freedom about a month ago. I'm about 430 pages (12 chapters) into it so far, and I've got about another 300 pages to go. It's been an enlightening read so far. Not that there's been a lot of "new" there that I didn't already know, but Franz's countless examples have helped me see the big picture a little more clearly.
Crisis of Conscience was half memoir, half Watchtower critique. It was also half the size of ISOCF. Franz still had a lot to get off his chest, and he does so in his second book.
What has really stood out to me is the countless of examples of double standards that have been applied throughout WT history. The picture that emerges is one of a religious organization concerned first and foremost with glorifying, protecting, and strengthening itself. Religious doctrines, policies, and teachings are then massaged in accordance with this primary goal. Of course, I had suspected this was the case for a very long time, but I have never been in a position to be able to verify that with my own eyes. Ray Franz does the filling-in for me and leaves no doubt that the WT was and is a religion, like most other denominations, interested in solidifying its ecclesiastical authority over its followers first. The well-being of its "rank and file" members is more of an afterthought.
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10
Any good Russell or Rutherford biographies you could recommend?
by neverendingjourney ini've read a few of the more popular books referenced on this forum.
i've read coc and apocalypse delayed, among others.
i'm currently reading in search of christian freedom.
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neverendingjourney
Thanks. I'll put these on my to-read list.
Have you read The Four President's of the Watchtower Society? The title seems to suggest it's the type of book I'm looking for, but not sure whether it's worth the time.
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Any good Russell or Rutherford biographies you could recommend?
by neverendingjourney ini've read a few of the more popular books referenced on this forum.
i've read coc and apocalypse delayed, among others.
i'm currently reading in search of christian freedom.
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neverendingjourney
I've read a few of the more popular books referenced on this forum. I've read CoC and Apocalypse Delayed, among others. I'm currently reading In Search of Christian Freedom. Despite reading these books and hundreds of threads on JWD, I still don't feel like I have a great feel for early JW history. I talk to an inactive friend who often asks me questions about early church history I have trouble answering.
I'm looking to read good biographies on Russell and Rutherford. Can anyone recommend good reads along those lines? Thanks.
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The FIVE exciting Watchtower Presidential Eras
by Dogpatch incharles t. russell era (1879-1916)date: late 1800's.
okay, july 1879 if you want to be picky.. current religious views: many apocalyptic leanings, prompting the origin of several major eclectic religious groups claiming that god had rejected the mainstream christian churches for their apostasy in the fourth century, and that he has now chosen a new prophet, a spokesman, a faithful messenger to re-educate the world as to the truths of the bible, long-lost and unattainable by any normal human being.
to gain eternal life, man must listen to the new gospel of this messenger(s).. this century sees the birth of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints (mormons), adventism and its various offshoots (including jehovah's witnesses), christian science, christadelphians and other smaller groups, each one claiming a modern-day prophet and new or once-forgotten revelations to the populace, many of whom we find shopping for new ideas, yet disenchanted with the churches.. scenario: a young man who can't understand theology from a historical development point of view begins to feel that he is the "seventh messenger" (rev.
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neverendingjourney
One more thing on your 5 stages of your typical religious sect:the JWs have been somewhat immune to this curve (compare them with the Mormons, for instance) because of the revolving-door nature of the religion. With its extraordinarily-high defection rate combined with fresh recruits (mostly from the developing world and immigrant pools in developed nations), the WT virtually replaces its membership every few decades.
What is a old and stale religious movement in the U.S. is a (relatively) new and exciting sect in Latin America and Africa. If the JWs were primarily an American relgion with the roots of your average member extending back into the group several generations, they'd be much further along in the natural progression of such religious groups.
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Did the WT totally "luck out" with World War I starting in 1914?
by lepermessiah inmy family is still fixated on the 1914 date, simply because world war i started that year.. i told them i will agree it is a significant year in world history, but that the 1914 date as presented by jw's is based on lies and charlatanry.. i said "i think the wt really lucked out with 1914 with wwi starting that year - it keeps most jw's stuck on that date" .
the standard answer is "well, that was the year everything went haywire"...... let the circular reasoning continue .
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neverendingjourney
They paint it as this serene, peaceful time when all was right with the world. And then! Satan was let loose on the earth and he obviously landed in Europe where he possessed someone to shoot the Archduke Ferdinand and then all hell broke loose.
Nevermind the fact that Ferdinand was shot in June 1914 whereas the WT said that Gentile Times would end in October 1914.
The real genius in Satan's actions was retroactively killing Ferdinand 4 months prior to his being "set loose".
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Did the WT totally "luck out" with World War I starting in 1914?
by lepermessiah inmy family is still fixated on the 1914 date, simply because world war i started that year.. i told them i will agree it is a significant year in world history, but that the 1914 date as presented by jw's is based on lies and charlatanry.. i said "i think the wt really lucked out with 1914 with wwi starting that year - it keeps most jw's stuck on that date" .
the standard answer is "well, that was the year everything went haywire"...... let the circular reasoning continue .
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neverendingjourney
The "beginning" and "end" of wars is construct conceived by historians to organize data. I had a professor in college who insisted that the World War I and World War II were not separate wars but one continuous war with a prolonged cease fire. It's pointless to argue about when the conflict we now refer to as "World War I" actually began. There is no right or wrong answer. There might be a consensus among historians, but no "true" date you can discover.
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Did the WT totally "luck out" with World War I starting in 1914?
by lepermessiah inmy family is still fixated on the 1914 date, simply because world war i started that year.. i told them i will agree it is a significant year in world history, but that the 1914 date as presented by jw's is based on lies and charlatanry.. i said "i think the wt really lucked out with 1914 with wwi starting that year - it keeps most jw's stuck on that date" .
the standard answer is "well, that was the year everything went haywire"...... let the circular reasoning continue .
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neverendingjourney
1799, 1874, 1914, 1919, 1925...if you keep attaching great significance to a bunch of years, eventually SOMETHING is going to happen to make it seem you were right.
Imagine the WT had predicted Armageddon would come in 2001. As a result, the faithful today praise their leaders for predicting 9/11 despite the fact that the original prediction called for the end of the world, not a catastrophic terrorist attack. That's in essence what happened with 1914.
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The FIVE exciting Watchtower Presidential Eras
by Dogpatch incharles t. russell era (1879-1916)date: late 1800's.
okay, july 1879 if you want to be picky.. current religious views: many apocalyptic leanings, prompting the origin of several major eclectic religious groups claiming that god had rejected the mainstream christian churches for their apostasy in the fourth century, and that he has now chosen a new prophet, a spokesman, a faithful messenger to re-educate the world as to the truths of the bible, long-lost and unattainable by any normal human being.
to gain eternal life, man must listen to the new gospel of this messenger(s).. this century sees the birth of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints (mormons), adventism and its various offshoots (including jehovah's witnesses), christian science, christadelphians and other smaller groups, each one claiming a modern-day prophet and new or once-forgotten revelations to the populace, many of whom we find shopping for new ideas, yet disenchanted with the churches.. scenario: a young man who can't understand theology from a historical development point of view begins to feel that he is the "seventh messenger" (rev.
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neverendingjourney
Interesting thoughts, Randy.
There is not right and wrong way to classify WT history. These are just tools to help us mentally organize large amounts of data and understand patterns in the development of the group.
Personally, I find it more useful to think of WT history along the following lines:
1. The Russell Era 1879-1916
2. Rutherford Era 1916-1942
3. Knorr/Franz Era 1942-1980
4. Governing Body Era 1980-Present
I see the first two eras as you do, as the organization was defined almost exclusively by the men who held the presidency. I would, however, lump Knorr and Franz in together since you really had two men who steered the course for the religion in the ensuing era. Knorr was the boss; the bureaucrat/administrator who oversaw the expansion of the WT organization into a global empire, but Freddy had virtual free reign to craft the religion's theology. Knorr had veto power, but he seldom exercised it. Knorr controlled the administration; Freddy controlled the theology.
The way I see it, this arrangement continued up until Knorr's death, even though the GB officially took control before his passing. However, due to the strength of their personalities, Knorr and Franz continued to be the religion's leaders…that is until 1980. By that point, Knorr had passed away and the religion had been thoroughly embarrassed by Freddy's 1975 prophetic failure. It was at that point that the GB asserted itself and Freddy lost the powerful role of quasi-leader he once held. Freddy continued to be influential, but it was in 1980 that the GB steered a new course for the religion. Dissent was quashed with an iron fist. The era of singular leadership was over. The dawn of the rule-by-committee era had dawned.
From 1980 forward there was a steady move to erase all semblance of a sole leader. This move was further cemented when the GB resigned from their individual posts on the legal organizations, thus distancing themselves from their historic role in leading the religious group. This era has been characterized by a tremendous push for uniformity and premium on maintaining the status quo. Like a large publicly-traded corporation that has reached its peak, the GB has focused on maintaining its empire and attempting to avoid its eventual decline.