That struck me, too. Clever, isn't it? Especially b/c most of us that leave DO start living normal lives which usually eventually include a romantic partner - so the "bad conduct" becomes self-fufilling... I would love to see a real breakdown of WHY people actually leave.
Georgiegirl
JoinedPosts by Georgiegirl
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13
A Statement in the WTS from 10/25/09
by lepermessiah inthere was a statement in the wt study yesterday that really struck me.. i believe it was in the box pimping the "keep yourself in big brother's love" oops...."keep yourself in god's love" book.. it was a simple statement but hit me like a ton of bricks - furthering my resentment toward the hateful and indiscreet slave.. it said something like ..."many people have left jehovah's love" and went on to mention conduct instead of doctrine being the cause.. it really got me thinking:.
1) doesnt god love unconditionally?
isnt that why he sent jesus christ forth?.
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26
Child Molestation and the Two Witness Rule
by garyneal inthis morning, as i was fixing breakfast, my wife and i got on the subject of religion (again) and i apologized to her for some of the things i said yesterday regarding the jehovah's witnesses.. in short, i said that given the way she treated me in regards to keeping me in the dark about certain financial situations, overdrawing her checking account and running up $500 in credit card debt due to her overdrafts that i am surprised the elder and his wife would approve of her activities in light of their teachings.
i said, "when you go to their house and study that book 'keeping yourself in god's love' with them, ask them what they would think of you taking such a nonchalant attitude over how you are managing the household finances and the way you respond to me when i inquire about the situation.
telling me that 'i should not worry' and that 'i am being fed and have a roof over my head' in such a way that i should just be quiet about it and let you be in charge.
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Georgiegirl
So sorry - I can't imagine how frustrated you feel.
One of the challenges (not that you don't know this) is that ANYTHING you say will take second place to anything they say. The WTBS has been very clever in what they say in print...and what they say in print HAS changed since Barbara and since the financial settlements...and the R&F won't THINK. This is what could happen, so be prepared.
She goes to the elder & his wife and ask. They haul out the articles on pedophilia AND the question from readers AND the "new light" that says it doesn't have to be two witnesses to the same event - it can be two different witnesses to different events at two different times. They will show in writing that members have the right to decide if they will report it or not. She feels you have now been completely discredited and have been fed false information by apostates.
You have to have every single one of your facts correct when confronting a JW - and that's tough because the "facts" change constantly.
Of course, the reality is - how pedophiles are dealt with internally is not reflective of stated policy. We all know that as the stories above show. But, until it happens to your wife personally, she will NOT believe you. She has been trained to disbelieve and distrust anything that is not WTBS.
I am curious - what is her PERSONAL reason for believing this is the truth? Find THAT out and work from there. It's different for each person, so just arbitrarily throwing things out there like 607, or UN, or pedophiles, or mistranslations of the WT will only increase the persecution complex and have her dig in deeper to defend. Find out what specific reason or reasons she has. Pin her down to them. Once she says "X" is THE reason why I believe this is the truth, you have a starting point.
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41
R U disfellowshipped 2
by DFshipped inhi people.
i am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold.
i am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization i believe to be in the palm of jesus hand.. i would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.. this board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may i ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their god given right to pursue their goal.
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Georgiegirl
EVERYONE - AGAIN THIS THREAD IS EIGHT YEARS OLD. :) gg.
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R U disfellowshipped 2
by DFshipped inhi people.
i am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold.
i am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization i believe to be in the palm of jesus hand.. i would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.. this board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may i ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their god given right to pursue their goal.
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Georgiegirl
Witchtowerwitch - did you mean to resurrect a thread that was started EIGHT YEARS AGO? I'm no great expert but I'm thinking that the original poster is long gone.
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FOUND JW EMERGENCY CONTACT LIST TAKE A LOOK!!!!!
by tiffy0212 inlooked into hubby's bag and found this paper.
they want to know person to contact in case of emergency , name of person in case of a disaster or evacuation-where would you like to go?
those who might be traveling with you (name, relationship.
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Georgiegirl
They started this awhile ago - I think post-Katrina?
Oh - and another thought on this...wanna take bets on the facts that this is US and UK-specific?
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Being Under Cult Mind Control is a Psychological Disorder - Steve Hassan
by flipper inthought perhaps some newer members who haven't heard some of hassan's thoughts on mind control might relate to this from their own experiences in jehovah's witnesses .
even though mind control is initiated by the cult involved in controlling it's members - hassan points out - it actually becomes a psychological disorder which can entrap the victim himself or herself - all the while - as they are being controlled by the leaders of cults.. on page 55 of hassan's book " releasing the bonds - empowering people to think for themselves " it states what happens in a destructive cult , " in a destructive cult, the locus of control shifts to the group or it's leader .
the new recruit abdicates his ability to make decisions.
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Georgiegirl
Flipper - Sorry - I might not have made myself clear. Dissaociative disorder is DEFINITELY still in the DSM-IV. However, in the DSM-III one of the reasons for it was cult/mind control and THAT causation has been removed because it the link between coercive persuasion and dissocative disorder cannot be definitely made.
As far as the Singer case, I'm still trying to wade through truth and fiction on that. From what I can ascertain (and anyone who can provide the legitimate research to help, I'd love to see it) Margaret Singer was at the forefront of work done on cults and mind control. She was one of the founding members of the AFF (AMerican Family Foundation) which is controversial in and of itself because of their forceable work to kidnap and deprogram cult members. Alot of harm was done by their techniques. From what I understand, the AFF evolved into the Cult Awareness Network. That name was bought by Scientology, causing even more confusion and harm. It is now in the form of ICSA, the International Cult Studies Association, which appears to be legit (although it too has its detractors - mainly cults - ha!).
From wikipedia (I know, not always totally reliable which is why I'm still trying to wade through all of this, but it seems to be accurate):
The American Psychological Association (APA) in 1983 asked Singer, who was one of the leading proponents of coercive persuasion theories, to chair a taskforce to investigate whether brainwashing or "coercive persuasion" did indeed play a role in recruitment by such groups. The task force was titled APA Task Force on Deceptive and Indirect Techniques of Persuasion and Control (DIMPAC).
The final report of the Task Force was completed in November 1986. The APA Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility for Psychology (BSERP) rejected the report, stating that it lacked scientific rigor and an evenhanded approach, but also stating that it did not have sufficient information to take a position. There is dispute about whether the rejection of the report constituted a rejection of Singer's theories by the APA.
She sued them and lost.
From a purely professional point of view, one of the challenges is empirical evidence of mind control theory. There is obviously alot of anecdotal evidence but true empirical studies that are accepted in the scientific and medical communities are few and far between. There is huge need in this field.
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89
Being Under Cult Mind Control is a Psychological Disorder - Steve Hassan
by flipper inthought perhaps some newer members who haven't heard some of hassan's thoughts on mind control might relate to this from their own experiences in jehovah's witnesses .
even though mind control is initiated by the cult involved in controlling it's members - hassan points out - it actually becomes a psychological disorder which can entrap the victim himself or herself - all the while - as they are being controlled by the leaders of cults.. on page 55 of hassan's book " releasing the bonds - empowering people to think for themselves " it states what happens in a destructive cult , " in a destructive cult, the locus of control shifts to the group or it's leader .
the new recruit abdicates his ability to make decisions.
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Georgiegirl
Ugh. Hate double posts. Sorry!
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89
Being Under Cult Mind Control is a Psychological Disorder - Steve Hassan
by flipper inthought perhaps some newer members who haven't heard some of hassan's thoughts on mind control might relate to this from their own experiences in jehovah's witnesses .
even though mind control is initiated by the cult involved in controlling it's members - hassan points out - it actually becomes a psychological disorder which can entrap the victim himself or herself - all the while - as they are being controlled by the leaders of cults.. on page 55 of hassan's book " releasing the bonds - empowering people to think for themselves " it states what happens in a destructive cult , " in a destructive cult, the locus of control shifts to the group or it's leader .
the new recruit abdicates his ability to make decisions.
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Georgiegirl
Hey there! While I agree with alot of what Steve Hassan says, for accuracy's sake I need to point out that being under any form of cult mind control has, in fact, been removed from the DSM-IV (the diagnostic manual for the APA). It was in the DSM-III. There is some controversy over why it was removed (some feel it was in direct relation to the M. Singer issues; I have NO idea and can't comment b/c of not knowing enough about it).
Disassociative disorder IS still on the books, and there is a diagnostic code that indicates it is non-specific...
Just wanted to clarify this just in case anyone is asked/confronted - that way the information presented is accurate. :)
gg.
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48
College
by AllTimeJeff ini know i have threatened to do this before, like when i first left.
but i am thinking of going to college.
this time, i feel determined.
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Georgiegirl
Oh honey! I can't believe you told everyone!
On a serious note, I'm in college, full-time, plus work full time. It's been a challenge, but terrific. Be happy to answer any questions for you - just PM me.
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24
Why is Ray Franz the only GB member to have ever resigned?
by yadda yadda 2 init's always seemed a bit odd to me that ray franz is the only gb member to have ever resigned, particularly for such a controversial religion.. we know from ray franz's books that there is often debate amongst the gb about new ideas sometimes introduced and often they are quite divided in their opinions.. i am not sure when the "governing body" officially began (wikipedia's explanation is messy) but it was quite a few decades ago.
there have been dozens of members of the gb since it's creation (does anyone know the exact total number?).
one would think that there would have been a few more disgruntled gb members over the years who would have resigned if the gb voted against some proposal they felt very strongly about.
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Georgiegirl
I think some of it has to do with personal integrity and strength of character, but I think part of it was also the time period. Remember that he was assigned to write and do the research for the Aide Book - and found huge discrepancies and sheer inaccuracies. He brought it to the GB for resolutions - and then it reaaaallly started to go downhill. You don't find that type of in-depth material being written or released anymore. It's all dumbed down tracks and magazines with 2-3 sentence paragraphs. The issues that were raised wouldn't be raised now. (this is all my opinion, of course). :)