Posts by Wafe

31

Question for Believers: How can God be PERFECT?

by kid-A in

several weeks ago the issue of god's 'perfect nature' came up on a thread.

the concept of "perfection" is a persistent in vitually all faith traditions and theological constructs.. jws in particular, have an obsession with the concept of perfection and use it regularly in their propaganda: "live forever in a perfect paradise earth"; "live forever in perfect health"; "humans and animals will live together in perfect harmony", etc etc...... the point was raised about the possibility or impossibility of god being perfect.

if we begin with the basic judaeo-christian tenet that god created the universe from nothingness, then he is the designer and creator of every single entity, sentient or non-sentient, and object within reality.

Wafe

Yes you do get points for pointing out flaws in logic which reinfoces the point that it is useless ;)

What I do find amusing though is this.

There is no proof of God.

But if there is a book about God and it does not fit my criteria of perfection, it must be fake.

Anyone who tells me that the book is what it claims must be stupid, delusional, or have no knowledge of the facts.

If I were to say the above, I could disprove anything too.

Exactly what is the criteria for being perfect? How do you determine this as an imperfect being? I mean is there a test that someone takes or is it something that a person is born with?

The fact is that not everyone basis for perfection is the same. Take my belief about the Bible.

The Bible says that it is inspired of God but it does not say HOW it is inspired of God. Tell me where the in the Bible does the word infallible appear? Where does it say that this is the criteria in which to measure it?

The fact is that nowhere does the Bible say that it is infallible. That is something that people assume. What the Bible DOES say is that there are a great cloud of witnesses that confirm over and over again and again of how these events took place (Hebrews Chapter 12). As a result, I look at the Bible as a newspaper that reported the events (good and bad) in which almost every event is confirmed by at least one other separate person in the Bible. Jeremiah confirms Isaiah. Ezra confirms Jeremiah. Jesus is confirmed by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John who are confirmed by others in the letters. The existence of Moses is confirmed by Joshua who is confirmed by several others in the Bible. No other religious book neither the Koran nor the Book of Mormon has this amount of interlinking testimony.

But none of this requires the Bible to be perfect. Nor does the Bible itself say this. That again is something that people assume and you know what happens when people assume

It makes an ASS out of U and ME. ;)

24

Bethel Romeos - throwing your daughters at them

by Uzzah in

it was raised in a comment quoted in the national post article today:.

on speaking engagements at kingdom halls throughout the country, fathers would sometimes even offer up their daughters in marriage to him because of the prestige of his position, he said.. have any of the gals here experienced this?

did your parents 'parade you' around visiting bethelites or try to set you up with them?

Wafe

Yet another reason that I left (well I am not DF or DA but I don't plan on going back.) I saw a lot of people confusing spirituality with status.

For a long time, I wanted to marry more than anything and did everything I could to become someone that would be a good husband. I studied the Bible, read all the liturature, went out in service and did all the meetings. However I was told by many people that I was not a good example because I was not a Ministeral Servant or an Elder and as a result sisters turned me down. I was doing everthing else right but I did not have the status.

Now I am 35 and it is looking like there is no way I am going to get married anytime soon as I do not have enough friends and it would take me years to go back and become a MS. As a result, I will more than likely have to give up on marriage all together. The sad part is that I have heard the most Bethelites make the worst mates.

Talk about not being fair. That's when I realized that JW's are like the world, they just show it in a different way.

19

Is the bible really the good book ( broad scope analysis of Its content )

by Handsome Dan in

i came across this web site awhile back and i thought it had some thought provoking information.

it is obviously written by a group of atheists.

who wanted to bring to light what all christian faiths base their religious beliefs on and probablly why some devout christians eventually turn to atheism.. if you read their analysis of what the bible says with an open mind it can be very thought provoking material.. after reading most of the sub topics they have listed, i found most of the reading to be both mind expanding and humorous for a lot of it, your mileage may vary.

Wafe

Now that is a different story ;)

I for one am a Christian but I would LIKE to think that I am not a hypocrite (can't always say that I am not but regardless..)

Anyway, there are Christians that are not what they claim and it can be disappointing to say the least (teach to love one's neighbor and then killing them in a war is a good example) but I don't think that all Christians are this way. I met a woman the other day that was a Chistian and after talking to her, she was really interested in helping others, was not interested in money too much and really seemed to be genuine. On the other hand, you have people who are nothing like a Christian (I know several witnesses that are like this.)

I think that people are people and looking to any one person to hold onto them is pointless. After all the Bible says that is the way thing are with people.

Now whether you believe the Bible or not, it is at least in this case is true.

19

Is the bible really the good book ( broad scope analysis of Its content )

by Handsome Dan in

i came across this web site awhile back and i thought it had some thought provoking information.

it is obviously written by a group of atheists.

who wanted to bring to light what all christian faiths base their religious beliefs on and probablly why some devout christians eventually turn to atheism.. if you read their analysis of what the bible says with an open mind it can be very thought provoking material.. after reading most of the sub topics they have listed, i found most of the reading to be both mind expanding and humorous for a lot of it, your mileage may vary.

Wafe

I am sorry the word is VoTaPaSHa

My mistake ;)

19

Is the bible really the good book ( broad scope analysis of Its content )

by Handsome Dan in

i came across this web site awhile back and i thought it had some thought provoking information.

it is obviously written by a group of atheists.

who wanted to bring to light what all christian faiths base their religious beliefs on and probablly why some devout christians eventually turn to atheism.. if you read their analysis of what the bible says with an open mind it can be very thought provoking material.. after reading most of the sub topics they have listed, i found most of the reading to be both mind expanding and humorous for a lot of it, your mileage may vary.

Wafe

I had been to this website before and checked out most of the statements that are made. To be honest this is one of the reasons that I read the Bible in the original lanugages.

Take the example at De 22:28-29 the NLT translates this rape. This is not accurate.

The word is VeHaPaSHa which actually means to lay with. Therefore it is mistranslated.

What I do find amazing is that so many people who claim to be rational bad mouth the Bible but never take the time to look into the original languages to see what it actually says. Most think it is english which I find amusing.

25

Myers Briggs Personality Indicator

by Outaservice in

jw
friends

i don't know how many have taken the myers briggs personality test?

my wife told me i was a esfj, whatever that means!.

do you think people not getting along, poster's differences, or war, or values, etc.

Wafe

I love that book!

I was given the test about a year and a half ago before I left JW's and it was very accurate (I got the Idealist Healer BTW) what I loved about it was up until that time, I thought that there was no one that had my personality as I am not like anyone in my family. I was relieved to find out that this was not the case.

Anyway I love that book!

19

Is the bible really the good book ( broad scope analysis of Its content )

by Handsome Dan in

i came across this web site awhile back and i thought it had some thought provoking information.

it is obviously written by a group of atheists.

who wanted to bring to light what all christian faiths base their religious beliefs on and probablly why some devout christians eventually turn to atheism.. if you read their analysis of what the bible says with an open mind it can be very thought provoking material.. after reading most of the sub topics they have listed, i found most of the reading to be both mind expanding and humorous for a lot of it, your mileage may vary.

Wafe

I have read many books about the Bible being near athiest myself at one time and have found that most of them lack the proper research.

First of all, most use the King James Version which is not the best translation out there.

Second most talk about the contradictions which make sense if you think the life does not contain any. Which most people well know is rarely the case.

Third, many are written with a biased agenda in mind. Therefore I consider them as valid as a person who is religious downing evolution. A good example is the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins taking about the Bible. After reading his thoughts I could tell that this was a man who was out of his field.

Anyway that's what I have seen from most books.

31

Question for Believers: How can God be PERFECT?

by kid-A in

several weeks ago the issue of god's 'perfect nature' came up on a thread.

the concept of "perfection" is a persistent in vitually all faith traditions and theological constructs.. jws in particular, have an obsession with the concept of perfection and use it regularly in their propaganda: "live forever in a perfect paradise earth"; "live forever in perfect health"; "humans and animals will live together in perfect harmony", etc etc...... the point was raised about the possibility or impossibility of god being perfect.

if we begin with the basic judaeo-christian tenet that god created the universe from nothingness, then he is the designer and creator of every single entity, sentient or non-sentient, and object within reality.

Wafe

I find that logic is useless in virtually every argument known to humans for one simple reason.

Something can be contradictory and still be true. Logic can only be effective under the following conditions.

A. There must be an either/or situation. IE God must be imperfect or perfect.

B. You must know every aspect of the question at hand. This is almost never the case with life.

C. The information must be absoulute which it never is.

D. Logic works well with numbers and on paper-that's about it.

Take for example the following reasoning.

The strong replaces the weak. Murders are stronger than thier victims. Therefore it is logical to conclude that muderers are more fit for survival and have a right to live. This of course is absurd because morally murder is horrific. In this case the logic is flawed. Logic also cannot explain why people like beauty, art, music as there is no rational reason for any of this.

The point is that if your attempt is to disprove God's existance with logic there is really no point because God is love and love is not logical.

6

Do you find that JW's talk about the "UN" in a bad way like they use to?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i think that jw's studying the revelation grand climax book again for the 4th time is preparing the jw's for a "new light" to come out.

i feel that maybe they will say that they were wrong about the un being the beast of rev and now they believe that the un is actually being used by jehovah and jesus to help the preaching work to be accomplished.

Wafe

Well considering that they were a part of it.

http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf

I would say that the answer is no.

BTW I did call the society and the did confirm it was true.

30

Faders: Would you prefer attention from the elders or not?

by ringo5 in

jw
friends

this question may produce some flaming, but so be it.

i've noticed many are freaked out, annoyed, worried, or simply felt harrassed when faced with the prospect of a visit from the elders when trying to fade.

others, or at times the same ones, complain that they recieved no inquiry from them at all or very little.

Wafe

I waited for them for five years as I was in bad need for help. I never got a response (other than when I went to them) so at this point I frankly don't care to ever see them again.