by avram goldstein.
may 5 (bloomberg) -- the number of suicides among veterans of wars in iraq and afghanistan may exceed the combat death toll because of inadequate mental health care, the u.s. government's top psychiatric researcher said.
community mental health centers, hobbled by financial limits, haven't provided enough scientifically sound care, especially in rural areas, said thomas insel, director of the national institute of mental health in bethesda, maryland.
He will be pulling 6 figures and watching camera monitors
Money doesn't go far when you're dead.
Maybe your friend is troubled and conflicted about what he's seen there and drunken braggadocio is his way of dealing with it?Could be, I can't see how he couldn't be!
See that, Burn?
That's the point of this thread.
I hope he keeps safe.
Same here.
this topic is meant as a follow-up of my recent conversation with r. crusoe on different threads.. it seems to me that the current popularisation of eckhart tolle's philosophy, resurrecting what i think is the very core of age-old mystical traditions (to put it shortly: death of the culturally constructed "self"), without the collective mythological, institutional and social settings for such an experience, is potentially very liberating but also very dangerous.. i am sensitive to that because i went through a similar experience when i left jws -- i felt both its empowering and destructive force, and, although i certainly don't claim to have dealt with it optimally (is that an adverb?
), i'm hoping that experience, good or bad, may benefit others, to an extent.
and i'm sure that i'm not alone in that case.. so i'd like this thread to be primarily supportive, even though that may include some theoretical and practical criticism.. .
Do "members" of the so-called Oneness Movement shun those that read about it and then question some of it?
Do they judge those that fail to live up to whatever it is they are promoting?
It seem to be about an effort to quiet all the negative programming we've received.
What's the harm in that?
by avram goldstein.
may 5 (bloomberg) -- the number of suicides among veterans of wars in iraq and afghanistan may exceed the combat death toll because of inadequate mental health care, the u.s. government's top psychiatric researcher said.
community mental health centers, hobbled by financial limits, haven't provided enough scientifically sound care, especially in rural areas, said thomas insel, director of the national institute of mental health in bethesda, maryland.
Maybe your friend is troubled and conflicted about what he's seen there and drunken braggadocio is his way of dealing with it?
the united nations warned yesterday that it no longer has enough money to keep global malnutrition at bay..... http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/feb/26/food.unitednations.
this is a changed world.
we are living in very historic times.
idiot glasses
Always so histrionically vitriolic.
by avram goldstein.
may 5 (bloomberg) -- the number of suicides among veterans of wars in iraq and afghanistan may exceed the combat death toll because of inadequate mental health care, the u.s. government's top psychiatric researcher said.
community mental health centers, hobbled by financial limits, haven't provided enough scientifically sound care, especially in rural areas, said thomas insel, director of the national institute of mental health in bethesda, maryland.
You are obviously being deliberately dense.
You're letting yourself get caught up in all the patriotic fervor that makes this country look so bad to the rest of the world.
You really are much smarter than that, Burn.
the united nations warned yesterday that it no longer has enough money to keep global malnutrition at bay..... http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/feb/26/food.unitednations.
this is a changed world.
we are living in very historic times.
A resource war
A resource war?
Are you thinking I'm suggesting that the Bushies are helping by securing oil supplies?
I was referring to all the killing being done of men, women and children.
They're doing a lot to reduce the Iraqi population.
Your friend is doing his part.
He has killed more people over there than cancer.
He is 22.
He is going back this month.
(H)e made creaming someone with a .50 cal sound better than sex.
A little freaky IMHO, but I guess if you are in you rights to shoot someone you shouldn't feel guilty.
He is not going back because he has to, he wants to. He got hired with a contractor to provide security.
by avram goldstein.
may 5 (bloomberg) -- the number of suicides among veterans of wars in iraq and afghanistan may exceed the combat death toll because of inadequate mental health care, the u.s. government's top psychiatric researcher said.
community mental health centers, hobbled by financial limits, haven't provided enough scientifically sound care, especially in rural areas, said thomas insel, director of the national institute of mental health in bethesda, maryland.
you have no right to criticise the real men
A gun full of bullets and a license to kill men, women and children doesn't make a real man.
I thought you were smarter than that, Burn.
who secure your pansy ass
How exactly have they secured my "pansy ass"?
By creating more potential terrorists?
criticise
Your Bristish now?
the united nations warned yesterday that it no longer has enough money to keep global malnutrition at bay..... http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/feb/26/food.unitednations.
this is a changed world.
we are living in very historic times.
It's ironic that our success as a species(overpopulation) is also our biggest problem.
More humans are surviving into adulthood and living longer than ever before in human history.
The Bush Administration is doing it's best to relieve the problem in Iraq.
They hope to soon begin to thin out the Irani population as well.
so, has anyone else clicked the ads and watched the scientology videos?
.
dave
Damn Xenu to the darkest depths of Hell!
if you can't perceive my existence you're not really looking.. there are special people that can.
don't be bothered by the fact that these people can't agree on anything about me.. the point is that they believe and that's good enough for me.. how shall i reward them?
i'll be there when they're suffering.. watching.. admiring their faith.. though they disagree about how their faith will ultimately work out, it makes life easier for them somehow.. the poor fools that don't know me are left to suffer all by themselves.. you're all going to die.. wouldn't it be eaiser to face your fate knowing i was watching it all, permitting it all, and occasionally scourging a little too for good measure?
Great Lisa Miller interview with Bart D. Ehrman, author of God's Problem.
“On Faith” panelist Lisa Miller is a senior editor at Newsweek. She oversees all of the magazine's religion coverage and writes the regular "Belief Watch column. She edited Newsweek’s “Spirituality in America” double issue, which looked at the rise of spirituality and why many Americans are choosing to seek spiritual experiences outside traditional religions. She has supervised publication of major cover stories including “Sex, Shame and the Catholic Church,” (March 2002), “The Bible and the Qur’an,” (February 2002), “Fighting Addiction,” (February 2001), and “God and the Brain,” (May 2001). Miller came to Newsweek from the Wall Street Journal, where she was an award-winning senior special writer covering religion for the paper’s front page since 1997. Prior to the Journal, Miller worked at the New Yorker, Self magazine and Harvard Business Review. In 1998, she won a New York Newswomen’s Club award for feature writing. She earned a B.A. in English from Ohio’s Oberlin College. Miller is writing a book about contemporary beliefs and conceptions of heaven. Close.
“On Faith” panelist Lisa Miller is a senior editor at Newsweek. She oversees all of the magazine's religion coverage and writes the regular "Belief Watch column. more »
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Bart Ehrman, Biblical scholar at the University of North Carolina and former evangelical Christian explains in his new book “God’s Problem” why theodicy – or the problem of suffering -- caused him to cease believing in the Christian God. Here's my interview with him.
The problem of suffering is the oldest philosophical problem in history. Why attempt to address it now?
The reason it’s an old problem is because people are constantly confronted with it. It’s the oldest problem for thinking people, but people still think.
Can you explain the problem, theologically?
In the traditional Christian understanding of God, God is the creator of the world and sovereign over the world. He’s all-powerful and all-loving, and yet there’s suffering. How does someone explain that there’s so much suffering in the world if there’s a good and all-powerful God who’s in charge of it?
There are three kinds of books that address this problem. There are philosophers who deal with it purely on the intellectual level. They tend to be very arid, astute and to me somewhat morally repugnant, because they’re treating it like a mathematical puzzle.
What are examples of such books?
I don’t want to name names. By making [theodicy] an intellectual puzzle, it allows people to bypass the real issue, which is that there are people suffering in the world. It brings about a kind of complacency rather than a response.
What’s the second category of books on suffering?
A self-help, feel good about yourself book, like Joel Osteen’s. Most of these are so simplistic they’re silly.
How are Joel Osteen’s books about suffering?
They advise you to think good thoughts. Think happy thoughts. Count your blessings. Realize it could be worse. You could have an arm amputated as well. You’re supposed to feel good about yourself because God has a wonderful plan for your life. There’s a reason for everything -- these kinds of platitudes, I think they’re morally bankrupt actually.
And the third kind?
The third kind, which you typically get in the Judeo-Christian tradition, are books that wrestle with the problem by looking at texts. These are not by philosophers but by religious thinkers. In my book, basically I’m dealing with traditional answers to suffering and trying to evaluate their utility.
But you left the Christian faith…
Yes, I found all the answers to be unsatisfying. There’s one Biblical view that I do find satisfying, which is the view found in the book of Ecclesiastes. It’s a book that says that life is very short and it’s all we have. We don’t know the whys and wherefores of why things happen, but we do have life, and we should enjoy all the good things in life that we can—and help people so they can also enjoy life.
Was there a moment where you decided to leave your Christian faith behind?
I continued to go to church for many years after I stopped being an evangelical Christian. I was in church, and the congregation was saying the Nicene Creed, and the only part I could say out loud was that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate and that he died and was buried. That’s when I decided I couldn’t claim to be a Christian anymore and go to church. That was eight or nine years ago.
How has that changed you?
I’ve compensated for the loss by intensifying my passion for friends and family and work and trying to enjoy life more. I buy better wine than I used to, better micro-brewed beer, and I eat better food. I think I live life with more of a gusto than I used to.
What has been the response to your book?
I was on [NPR’s] “Fresh Air,” with Terry Gross, I’ve been getting hundreds of emails, and I try to answer these emails. A lot of people have gone through a very similar movement from Christianity to agnosticism or very serious doubt. A lot of people feel they’ve done this alone; there isn’t a community of like-minded doubters.
How has this transformation changed your scholarship?
I started out in Biblical scholarship as an evangelical Christian. My special area of scholarship has been to study the original words in the gospels were -- I wanted to know what the original words were because I thought they were inspired by God. Since I don’t believe any of that anymore, I do it for a completely different reason. Christianity is the most important religion in our civilization so I do it for cultural and historical reasons now.
Did your scholarship actually lead you away from God?
This is going to be the next book. I’m imagining a three-book thing. “God’s Problem” is, in some ways, the last book. There’s this entire middle area, about when I was a church going, God-believing, sin-confessing Christian. There’s a story there about how scholarship ended up leading me away from my traditional Christian faith.
How did that happen?
For one thing, I started finding all sorts of contradictions in the Bible, and I started finding that the different authors of the Bible had very different views of who God was and who Jesus was. Mark’s gospel has a very different Jesus than John’s gospel and neither of them has the same Jesus as the Nicene Creed. Who am I supposed to believe? Mark? John? The Nicene Creed? They’re all different from the historical Jesus, and what are you supposed to believe? This book next that I’m going to write is going to deal with that -- how historical scholarship on the Bible actually undermines traditional Christianity.
The British theologian N.T. Wright would disagree with you.
Yes he would, forcefully.
How can a book that denies the truth of the Christian God offer comfort to the suffering?
The only way I can gauge it is from the emails I’ve been getting, from folks whose spouses have died or whose child has been killed in a car accident. These people have expressed deeply felt thanks for the book, they say it helped them to see – I don’t think you can say there’s a reason for everything. So your child gets killed by a drunk driver, and someone tells you there’s a reason for everything? No. It helps people to see that the Bible doesn’t have a single answer. Some of the answers in the Bible can be comforting. But at the end of the day, it’s impossible to reconcile the idea of suffering with an all-powerful and loving god. As scary as that is for some people, it also can be comforting, because there’s not a loving god that’s causing all this.
What does give comfort?
It really helps a lot to count blessings and to realize how good life can be and how good it is. When someone’s really suffering in extremis, there’s not a lot you can do. You just have to suffer with them.
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Posted by David Waters on March 7, 2008 11:36 AM
