On the sound use of mental suicide.

by Narkissos 86 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    This topic is meant as a follow-up of my recent conversation with R. Crusoe on different threads.

    It seems to me that the current popularisation of Eckhart Tolle's philosophy, resurrecting what I think is the very core of age-old mystical traditions (to put it shortly: death of the culturally constructed "self"), without the collective mythological, institutional and social settings for such an experience, is potentially very liberating but also very dangerous.

    I am sensitive to that because I went through a similar experience when I left JWs -- I felt both its empowering and destructive force, and, although I certainly don't claim to have dealt with it optimally (is that an adverb?), I'm hoping that experience, good or bad, may benefit others, to an extent. And I'm sure that I'm not alone in that case.

    So I'd like this thread to be primarily supportive, even though that may include some theoretical and practical criticism.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Hi Didier, hope all is well with you and yours.

    I think I've mentioned that I would love to see you publish a book someday? Looks like we have your title!: "For Whom the ick Hearts Toll".

    :-D

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Thanks Mark, I'm still outliving myself to this day, and the others seem to be reasonably sane so far...

    It would take a true English-speaking author to write that one, and as a translator I pray that it never needs a French version...

    All the best,

    D.

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    I am curious as to how academically accessible Eckharts intuitive focus on self is to humanity as a whole?

    His own experience was one of loss of identity from a position of high academia!

    But his claim that humanitys preoccupation with education is precipitating many more states of 'loss of ego identity' is seemingly happening before our eyes.

    And Narkissos, how can you be sure it is not an ego of yours reacting to what you perceive to be a common solution for humanity to all manner of psychological dysfunctioning egos?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OPQqJGiZ6k

    Very unlike anything I know of!

    What alternative would you suggest to wholesome recovery from cultism? Or in fact identity crisis - previous roles you occupied which are denied you?

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Speaking of outliving oneself, I notice that Aimé Césaire may have stopped doing that Thursday. r.i.p.

    "poetry is the dream of miraculous weapons" ;)

  • SPAZnik
    SPAZnik

    good one, six!

  • SPAZnik
    SPAZnik

    great thread, peeps

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Thanks for the link.

    My 11 y-o daughter came by while I was watching and said: "Wow, this guy is not nearly as fidgety as Sarkozy!" (our restless and noisy French President, in case you don't know).

    how can you be sure it is not an ego of yours reacting to what you perceive to be a common solution for humanity to all manner of psychological dysfunctioning egos?

    On the contrary, I'm quite sure it is!

    Imho it definitely takes a thinking "ego" to type anything even mildly meaningful on a message board, or to deliver (even slowly!) an articulate talk with proper English syntax and grammar, and a consistent flow of ideas!

    A better question might be: how far has this "ego" integrated a consciousness of its limits (through "meditation" or otherwise)?

    But, imho again, such integration can only happen through the ordinary processes of mental cognition, i.e. linguistic symbolism and imaginary representation: Whatever the underlying silent (= speechless) experience, "stillness," "realm," "dimension," etc., are ultimately words on Tolle's lips and images in his mind... that would not happen without a reactive "ego".

    What alternative would you suggest to wholesome recovery from cultism? Or in fact identity crisis - previous roles you occupied which are denied you?

    It's not my intent to offer an alternative, as I believe the experience which I have called (a bit provocatively) "mental suicide" cannot be avoided by certain people at some stage of their lives (whether it should be recommended to everybody is a very different question I think). My concern is rather how the surviving "ego" outlives and integrates the experience, if it doesn't end in actual suicide or permanent insanity. To that end you need words and concepts -- a mythology or a philosophy.

    The risk is that, if you don't accept that those words and concepts are relative -- just as your words and concepts were before the "experience," even though they may be changed -- iow, if you want to have only the "true absolute self" speaking and acting in your stead (cf. "I no longer live, Christ lives in me"), not only you are fooling yourself and others, but your subsequent doctrine will be, in effect, absolute, i.e. unfalsifiable, dogmatic and totalitarian.

    I stick to the drama paradigm: you can't escape playing a role, but you can become conscious that you are playing a role. At best that might make you less dogmatic, not more, as you learn to laugh at the play while playing...

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Who am I?

    Watching Blue Planet drinking gin 20 minutes ago, I started thinking....

    ...Even my dreams are implanted. Are they mine?

    I play a part. Is that me?

    Who am I?

    Who for f*&k's sake am I?

    Who?

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ

    Hi narkissos. I'm not very educated but I am trying to learn the most I can. I love topics like this one. I went through a very scary experience a few years ago when I was starting my fade. I was very sick for a least 3 months and I had somewhat of a psychotic episode. I saw many scary things and I saw what I believed at the time to be god. I was running around town naked (it was -20c) telling people that I discovered how to be one with god and so on. I was convince that we were all the same consciousness and that everything was illusion. When I woke up in the ambulance I was very confused to what append to me. The reason I am telling you all this is that I think that some things might be dangerous for the mind if we are not careful. I would like to talk about this some more but I must leave now.

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