I hear you flipper, I started with the methods you;re discussing, but eventually I realized that nothing was working... I grew tired of hearing their crap, and taking crap off the family... I did this after 18 years.
At some point you realize that things aren't going to get better, and then you have to go ahead and drop the a-bomb.
Posts by dawg
-
47When Debating With Witnesses- Is Arguing Doctrine Beneficial ? Steve Hassan
by flipper inmy wife and i have been reading " releasing the bonds " by steve hassan and it makes some interesting points about assisting people to get out of any cult.
notice this excerpt from chapter 6 from the book.
hassan states, " it is also important to understand that in most bible -based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.
-
-
dawg
-
11
"Reasoning with the Scriptures" LOL!
by dawg inok guys, remember the book "reasoning with the scriptures"?
we need a book about what to say to a jw in the same manner.... .
all their replies are scripted so when they say blank... we need a reply... feel free to add.
-
-
dawg
Looking forward to reading this Mary
-
47
When Debating With Witnesses- Is Arguing Doctrine Beneficial ? Steve Hassan
by flipper inmy wife and i have been reading " releasing the bonds " by steve hassan and it makes some interesting points about assisting people to get out of any cult.
notice this excerpt from chapter 6 from the book.
hassan states, " it is also important to understand that in most bible -based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.
-
-
dawg
Graham, that stuff works too, I saw fear in the eyes of my cousin who's a JW at the hospital...she knew she'd better not shun me there.
Just walk up to them and talk, when they shun you say "I want all non-jws to see how JWs behave towards their own family"... call them out.
Make sure to have something to say after they shun you, like "even at a funeral they try and make me feel bad, I don;t feel bad because i no longer follow an organization of men"...or something to that effect -
11
"Reasoning with the Scriptures" LOL!
by dawg inok guys, remember the book "reasoning with the scriptures"?
we need a book about what to say to a jw in the same manner.... .
all their replies are scripted so when they say blank... we need a reply... feel free to add.
-
-
dawg
Ok guys, remember the book "Reasoning with the Scriptures"? We need a book about what to say to a JW in the same manner....
All their replies are scripted so when they say blank... we need a reply... feel free to add.
Like when a JW says "where else would we go but to the JW religion? You say, The bible says God is a spirit and he should be worshiped in spirit and TRUTH. So when you continue to preach about 1914 for instance, its a known false teaching based on the 607BC date being wrong, then you're telling people lies... you should turn to the truth, God wants you to teach ONLY the truth...
Add some more if you feel like it. -
47
When Debating With Witnesses- Is Arguing Doctrine Beneficial ? Steve Hassan
by flipper inmy wife and i have been reading " releasing the bonds " by steve hassan and it makes some interesting points about assisting people to get out of any cult.
notice this excerpt from chapter 6 from the book.
hassan states, " it is also important to understand that in most bible -based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.
-
-
dawg
Yea, you can go years and years trying this....
"Debating Doctrines, or showing them proof of WTS failure & misconduct will only result in the fact that they now see you as 'weak' and somebody to be ignored."
Which is a cop out; and I challenge Steve Hasslins approach on those grounds. You can try and plant seeds, but sooner or later, after years of shunning, and mistreatment, you'll finally get enough and let them have it...
I did, and it was the beast thing I've ever done, two things accomplished by my actions, 1) People in the family still in are scared out of their pants by me because I told them in my letters they damned well better not shun me, that if they did, I publicly draw attention to their behavior... I let them know it's their actions that I wouldn't take any longer and it was them wrong not me! 2) more and more people are becoming less afraid to challenge the religion... there's strength in numbers and more of my family are talking to me and becoming less afraid.
I've asked over and over if anyone can say that doing nothing accomplishes anything.... no one can point me to a person that has been effected and removed from the cult by the inaction of others...
We MUST let them know that we know better, that their actions will not freaking be tolerated, that we know the truth...
When they say, "where else can we go" say, the Bible says God is a spirit, and he should be worshiped in spirit and truth, you should always seek out the truth and nothing else. God wouldn't want you to do otherwise so by continuing to tell others about doctrines that are false, you're displeasing God himself. -
47
When Debating With Witnesses- Is Arguing Doctrine Beneficial ? Steve Hassan
by flipper inmy wife and i have been reading " releasing the bonds " by steve hassan and it makes some interesting points about assisting people to get out of any cult.
notice this excerpt from chapter 6 from the book.
hassan states, " it is also important to understand that in most bible -based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.
-
-
dawg
Yea, you can go years and years trying this....
"Debating Doctrines, or showing them proof of WTS failure & misconduct will only result in the fact that they now see you as 'weak' and somebody to be ignored."
Which is a cop out; and I challenge Steve Hasslins approach on those grounds. You can try and plant seeds, but sooner or later, after years of shunning, and mistreatment, you'll finally get enough and let them have it...
I did, and it was the best thing I've ever done, two things accomplished by my actions, 1) People in the family still in are scared out of their pants by me because I told them in my letters they damned well better not shun me, that if they did, I publicly draw attention to their behavior... I let them know it's their actions that I wouldn't take any longer and it was them wrong not me! 2) more and more people are becoming less afraid to challenge the religion... there's strength in numbers and more of my family are talking to me and becoming less afraid.
I've asked over and over if anyone can say that doing nothing accomplishes anything.... no one can point me to a person that has been effected and removed from the cult by the inaction of others...
We MUST let them know that we know better, that their actions will not freaking be tolerated, that we know the truth...
When they say, "where else can we go" say, the Bible says God is a spirit, and he should be worshiped in spirit and truth, you should always seek out the truth and nothing else. God wouldn't want you to do otherwise so by continuing to tell others about doctrines that are false, you're displeasing God himself. -
9
Hindu Threat to Christians: Convert or Flee
by cameo-d infrom the new york times.
they were ordered to get on their knees and bow before the portrait of a hindu preacher.
they were told to turn over their bibles, hymnals and the two brightly colored calendar images of christ that hung on their wall.
-
-
dawg
As I've said over and over... all religion is bad, and leads to this sooner or later...
-
18
So it's over. Again.
by faundy inthree years ago i told a close friend in australia that i was gay.
as a witness, she cut me off.
i wasn't surprised.
-
-
dawg
Piss on that nice letter shit.... sorry, but that's how I feel... tell her that her behavior is UNACCEPTABLE. And tell her why... tell her what you know about the JWs, if she's leaving anyway, might as well let her go with a message that may do her and her soon to be family some good...
Do you really want her to leave with her thinking that her actions are justifiable? They're clearly not! She should be told how deplorable her behavior is.... damn it! -
15
(when) Did you stop believing?
by megs ini stopped believing when my husband left us because my daughter no longer wanted to attend meeting, and he was a elder.
had to seek assistance from the government to buy food and pay bills.
he took all monies with him.
-
-
dawg
I've never "quit believing" that God doesn't exist, I really want to believe he/she/it does exist. I've come to the conclusion that we are supposed to do for ourselves, even if something exists, we can't prove it with the available data, so we must do as much for ourselves as possible and not worry too much about things like that...
We can only learn from the bad that happens, we should use the minds we have to make our lives as happy as possible.. that's the conclusion I've come up with... even if he exists, his assistance seems arbitrary, which means he's leaving it up to us to make the world better.
your dad's death, nothing good can come of it other than trying to find cures from the illness he died from... God has left our futures in our own hands if he exists.... and if he does help i can't find a particular proof he hands down favors to anyone... so he must want us to do for ourselves...
I never give up hope that he may help us all one day, the fact that people defend bullshjit like the JW religion is a fine example of what bad religion can do to a life; in my mind religion must be defeated, but to me, religion has nothing to do with God... its all made up.
As Benjamin Franklin said, "it must be God's plan because it's happening"... we must learn to accept that bad things are going to happen, we must learn from all things as a people to move forward, that
s the only good thing that can come from our existence... whether God exists or not, I know this is true
But I do hold out hope, I want to believe, maybe he'll fly down on a spaceship and give us a clue one day... LOL! I still hold out hope.. -
-
-
dawg
"then wondering why I blow them off" What? LOL!
Sounds like a JC issue right there... LOL
Yea, what's up with the lieing thing?