When Debating With Witnesses- Is Arguing Doctrine Beneficial ? Steve Hassan

by flipper 47 Replies latest jw friends

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  flipper

  My wife and I have been reading " Releasing the Bonds " by Steve Hassan and it makes some interesting points about assisting people to get out of any cult. Notice this excerpt from Chapter 6 from the book.

  Hassan states, " It is also important to understand that in most Bible -based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group. It is the sense that the group is God's true people , a feeling cultivated by techniques of mind control . Thus , to engage the cult member in a Biblical argument or discussion is often futile. He perceives that you are being led by Satan ( at worst ) or that you are outside of God's will ( at best ) . Therefore , it is usually non-productive, creates barriers, and closes down communication. " I know I've found this out discussing doctrine with my witness relatives !

  Towards the end of Chapter 6 Hassan discloses what might work better in reaching out to " cult mind controlled " relatives or friends. He states , " The most powerful way to influence a person is to be an effective role model. If you want to encourage someone to grow and change, become a model of growth and change. " He continues, " If you want your loved one to believe the world is not such an evil place , and that there are plenty of constructive, worthwhile, and exciting things to do, then do some of those things yourself ! Tell your loved one about your experiences. Remember,living fully and well is it's own reward. Find things to do that energize you and make you feel good and resourceful. Approach each night of sleep with gratitude for the opportunity to be alive and look forward to a new day. "

  So, pretty interesting advice, eh ? Instead of arguing and getting frustrated with the witnesses, perhaps we could help them see about the constructive activities we are involved with , and share experiences we are having making a diference in the world with REAL things that help people ! Just be authentic and real with the witnesses and by example show we don't live in fantasy land. So what is your opinion of Hassan's information here ? Have you found that arguing with the witnesses is fruitless as well ? I look forward to your takes and experiences with this
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  leavingwt

  Thanks, Flipper! Agreed. Arguing over any details of doctrine is pointless, as long as their minds are being controlled and they are unwilling to even consider the possibility that the Society is wrong.
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  ninja

  hey flippo.....boiling down the whole argument...the problem is witnesses are told there is nowhere else to go.....so fear keeps them in.....if they see someone getting on in life and proving their argument wrong...it can make them see there is a world outside their own wee bubble.....stevey hassan says it perfect...peace out mate....da ninja
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  skeeter1

  I am pretty darn hard-headed. I keep hoping that just one kernel of my exposing a false teaching is to be remembered when they have the realization moment.
  
  I also thought that Steve said to try to show them that they are individiuals and cultivate that talent. They usually gave up a talent and individuality for the cult.
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  MadGiant

  Thanks

  Take care,

  Ismael
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  flipper

  LEAVING WT- I agree, as long as the witnesses minds are controlled by the WT society - it's like beating our heads on a brick wall arguing with them.

  NINJA- Very true what you say. Witnesses are told there is " nowhere else to go " - so by our living a good successful life outside the witnesses it can make them ponder on why we are successful !

  SKEETER 1 - Good points. Hassan does say to help them find their authentic self and interests they had before joining a cult. And that would include any talents they had. Hopefully they will listen to our opposing views someday and exposing of false teachings.

  MAD GIANT- Hope the info helped you ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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  LisaRose

  I agree with that. You will never debate anyone out of the JW's. But they have a belief that anyone that leaves is evil and will suffer. When you leave and are happier and doing well in life, it confounds them. I would only debate if the person was questioning and really open to discussion. 99.9 percent of JW's are not. Even when I was inactive and miserable as a JW, I would not have been open to the things presented here. Only after I left and began to think for myself did I understand.
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  flipper

  LISA ROSE- Very true. Debating with witnesses won't get them out of the cult. It does confuse them when they see us doing well in life once getting away from the witnesses as we are supposed to be " so evil and misled ". LOL! I too only really started opening my mind to things after leaving the witnesses. Then the REAL light turned on
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  no more kool aid

  Flipper, I have this book on order. I am sure we will just devour it when it comes. You are totally right, an argument can never be won, a point can never be made with hard core JW like our parents. They can always trump you. You bring up sex abuse, they say " don't let it come between you and everlasting life" Anything you say they just refute it with the party line ( even proof like dates and unfulfilled prophecy). Even when they see you living a great life they think Satan is making it look that way. But I just had the most wonderful night with my husband and neighbor's in our backyards with good food and the kids playing. We talked about religion,politics and life, it was so nice.I can only hope they see the light someday.
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  flipper

  NO MORE KOOL AID- Good points you bring up. It is true that our witness relatives make excuses and follow the company line when it comes to following the Watchtower's advice on things. It is true they would rather see kids abused than lose out on " everlasting life " ! Pretty selfish actually. I know you will enjoy reading the book when you receive it. I'm glad you had a good time with your family