if william josephus estimated that by the end of the first century, there were about 1,000,000 christians, and paul wrote that the good news .
had been preached "in under all creation", then why did john say in revelation that only 144,000 would go to heaven?.
why were those who numbered more than 144,000 christians prior to john's revelation in 96ad not informed that there hope was invalid?
Excellent topic illustrating just how flawed the WTB&TS theology is.
The whole Great Crowd/144,000 issue is based on the completely arbitary views of Rutherford. Ask any witness to prove from the Bible that the other sheep of John's gospel are the same as the Great Crowd of Revelation and they will be stumped - there is absolutely no Biblical link at all. Basically, witnesses have to accept this on blind faith (in the society) alone.
Eyeslice
i was talking to a ministerial servant last week, and he said that a bethel elder told him the reason why the 2004 annual service report was .
delayed, was because of man power problems.
they simply don't have enough staff at the us branch, because the annual report is already .
I agree this is a strange move. We live in the age of the internet and computers so the actual process of compiling the figures must be much easier than say 40 years ago.
My guess is that there is nothing too sinister about this particularly but rather that the lead time for publishing is getting longer, i.e. content is now prepared 6 months in advance in order that the magazines are all the same in the published languages.
Eyeslice
in what ways does each of the jw meetings play a part in instilling obedience to the mother organization?
or maybe put another way, how does each weekly jw meeting contribute to the overall jw mindset?.
this thought came to me whilst drifting in and out of the watchtower study this morning.. ministry school: helps jws strengthen their speaking skills for better defending their beliefs.
The busier you are in the "truth" the less time you have to question the things you are taught to take for granted.
Like many here, I was a Society man through and through but since I cut off all association with the congregation, I have come to a lot of different conclusions about such basic doctrines as blood, the importance of Christ, the Great Crowd, what we need to do to have a relationship with God, what it means to be a Christian, etc., etc.
Eyeslice
i remember a few years ago, i changed congregation, so the elders told me that they had to send my folder to the other congregation.
when i was baptized, i don't remeber them telling me they kept information on me, and that they would pass it around to other congregations if ever i moved.. i wonder what kind of information is kept in these folders.
probably everyone in the congregation has his hours listed and the privileges they had written in it, but maybe there is alot more written that we don't even know about.
As usual Blondie is spot on. A publisher's record card is approx. 6.5 by 5.5 inches and is simply a month by month table of hours, return visits, magazines, etc. Comments about the publishers would not be written on the record card except occassionally a reason why there is no field service for a month, e.g. "ill in hospital".
Even if you have committed a 'disfellowshipping' offense, there is likely to be little if anything in writing about it at your local congregation. In recent years the Society has in instructed the congregations to keep virtually nothing on file other than a copy of the disfellowshipping form (S77 ?) that is sent to them.
Finally, if you have been appointed a ministerial servant or elder at some point there will be a copy of the CO's recommendation to the Society on file. But this is usually quite trite, alongs the line of "brother X has served faithfully in this congregation for an number of years and I agree with the body of elders recommendation to appoint him".
Eyeslice
i'm thinking through my new position on blood transfusions, and would appreciate your 'pearls of wisdom.
i now feel that, while a blood transfusion is still dangerous, i would accept it as a last resort, if all else failed.
i would not die, or allow any of my family to die, for want of a transfusion of plasma, platelets, or red or white cells.
Axelspeed - don't get me wrong on this - I am with you on this, it is not a question of good health.
The point I was making is that although the Society has always made blood an issue of morality as opposed to health, the good health issue was seen as a positive side-effect if you like. But to my mind the fraction issue may indeed be more risky than whole blood transfusions.
last evening we went out with 2 other former jw couples a couple of guys and their wives i knew from the old days of bethel.
we were discussing the public apology that the catholic church just authorized to be made to the child abuse victims for their cases being mishandled as well as that $100 million dollar check they just cut.. .
and i will ask you all the same question .
In a word "No".
Like Axelspeed, I remember writing down the points in my copy of the "Shepherd" book. The point is though, because of the way the society always works in a secretive and manipulative manner, they will never admit to any wrong doing. Just like in the days of the old Soviet Union where the government worked in the same way and would never admit to any wrong or blame.
Eyeslice
i'm thinking through my new position on blood transfusions, and would appreciate your 'pearls of wisdom.
i now feel that, while a blood transfusion is still dangerous, i would accept it as a last resort, if all else failed.
i would not die, or allow any of my family to die, for want of a transfusion of plasma, platelets, or red or white cells.
This is a really interesting question and we probably need an expert (like Scully perhaps?) here. The Society used to make a bit of a point about the conclusion of the letter from the apostles - "if you keep these things, good health to you". (Acts 10:29).
However, my understanding is that blood fractions are usually obtained from "pooled" blood sources. For example, a single dose of a blood clotting factor might have come from blood pooled from 200 or 300 blood donations. Hence the risk of contracting AIDs or CJD from a fraction could be potentially higher from a fraction than from the whole blood of 3 or 4 individuals in a transfusion of 3 or 4 units..
Eyeslice
lately he's very become impatient and rather explosive in temper.
i can't cover it up anymore, and i'm so tired of pretending in the organization.. need to leave this man and this religious organization in a hurry!.
any of you divorced because of the wtbts?
Hi Doubtfully Yours,
Sorry to read about your troubles. A close friend of ours is going through a similar difficult time, having to leave an emotionally, physically and sexually abusive husband. Some advice from her experiences;
1) Make sure you know who your close family and friends are, i.e. those whom you can trust and confide in. You will need absolute trust in these and you will be surprised how supportive they will be.
2) You must take legal advice. Our friends was reluctant to do this but when she did do this at my insistence, she was glad she did. You will be emotionally too close to things. A lawyer may be expensive but they see things without the emotions you have and can help you see the wood from the trees.
3) Take a zero tolerance approach. If necessary involve the police and authorities. You do not need to be in fear of any recriminations from an abusive spouse.
Best wishes
Eyeslice
one of the things jws pride themselves in as that they know their bible (new world translation).
Exactly as C onfusedjw
Yeah I did and I was pretty darn good at it. And I believed what I knew. That's why it was so hard when I learned I was teaching lies to others - esp my family.
yes, that was me. Eyeslice
i'd like to get a sense of the scholars any of you out there appreciate most and who's hot right now (in the academic fields!)...
i always liked burton mack myself.
well, who would you love to meet?
William Barclay for me too. He has come across to me as a very balanced and loving Christian with a wealth of knowledge.
