Posts by aikichristian

78

Is practicing Capoeira wrong/bad/discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses?

by aikichristian in

my girlfriend used to be an avid capoeira practicioner for over year.

she has reaped many benefits from it: increased physical fitness, flexibility, some self-defense skills, and stress-relief.

she enjoyed it.. unfortunately, an article came out in the spanish version of the "watchtower" ("atalaya" in spanish) essentially saying that capoeira should not be practiced because it has some spirituality stuff in it that was wrong.

aikichristian

akichristian..If you truley are a martial artist,why would you need to ask these questions?..Why would you discourage someone from one of the most respected fighting forms?..My best guess is,you know nothing about martial arts..Except..What you read,watch on TV or the Movies...OUTLAW

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I never discouraged anyone, especially my own girlfriend, from practicing martial arts. You're mis-informed about Capoeira. Capoeira is popular, but it does not have a lot of respect as an effective style for combat or self-defense. Karate, Judo, BJJ, Muay Thai, and Escrima have WAY more respect than Capoeira. I don't even think Capoeira would be in the top 50 styles in terms of "respect". Your best guess is WAY wrong, I'm an active judoka (nikyu rank), aikidoka (yonkyu rank), and goju ryu karateka (ikkyu rank). Martial arts has been a big part of my life since I was 7 years old. I don't discourage my girlfriend from re-taking Capoeira or picking up a new MA. I am worried that the WTS will come out with another article saying that martial art "X" is bad too, causing her to get drama from her parents and eventually drop it. I have recommended that she take Judo, but who knows? the WTS may oppose that too because Judo's founder was a Shinto-ist and may be against the bowing and stuff. Fred: You don't have to look for war, sometimes war looks for you! Which is why one ought to have the ability to protect oneself should that situation arise (spiritually AND physically). I don't wish this on you or your loved ones: But one day you may find yourself in a situation where someone is imposing physical harm/violence upon you through no fault of your own. You're going to protect yourself or your loved ones from harm or further harm. Your attacker will not be interested in Jehovah, Christ's sacrifice, how many doors you knocked on, or if you read your Bible. Besides, the majority of MA schools emphasize self-defense rather than just going up to people and attacking them. Also a lot of MA styles developed as a defensive measure to invading forces (Okinawin karate, Escrima/Kali, Savate, etc.). Read your Bible, Fred, even Jehovah has used armies to protect his "Chosen People" and to expand the Kingdom of Israel. Spiritual and physical battle has been intertwined since Lucifer opposed Jehovah.

24

Is it just because i was raised a JW?

by helncon in

yesterday (sunday) we went to our daughters church for family service as they have these at the end of each term for the kids club (sunday school) and if you don't know about my beliefs that i don't have any and i am one not wanting to have anything to do with any religion.. anyway there are a few things that caught my attention during this service as i normally tune out but they were talking about how jesus was telling a parragul (sp?

) about sowing the seeds and then it all came flooding back of the memories about how the jw used this, and you know it was strange as this church was saying things almost identical to what the jw would say.. this is not what i was wanting to mention but i thought this was interesting.. so after all the service they have a morning tea for everyone afterward and i got talking to the minister/father/pastor (don't know what the head person called) wife and the subject come about christmas and i told her that this was not as important as when jesus died and that he wasn't even born on 25th december she was taken back that he was not born on this day as i told her he was born earlier in the year and i explained how this is the reason, she was gob smacked!.

i thought this was common knowledge so i wonder if she will go back to her husband and ask questions if this is true.. so i ask the question is it common knowledge that jesus was not born on this day and it is a pagan holiday or is it a jw thing.

aikichristian

I do find it saddening that you've lost all interest and trust in religion because of your experience as a JW.

Avoiding such turmoil will not make it go away. You may need to confront this "turmoil" or "pain" you're going through. You may have a lot of resentment, etc. that you need to process and heal from.

You also need to be careful of how you answer your daughter's questions regarding religious beliefs of the church she currently attends. Are you giving her a uniquely JW perspective? What you may understand as "a matter of fact" may be just what the JWs taught you, and not how it really happened or "should be".

There is a long discernment process still ahead of you, and it will be there so long as you do not confront the issue.

You're probably worried that you'll end up in the same JW-type shoes you got out of 10 years ago.

24

Is it just because i was raised a JW?

by helncon in

yesterday (sunday) we went to our daughters church for family service as they have these at the end of each term for the kids club (sunday school) and if you don't know about my beliefs that i don't have any and i am one not wanting to have anything to do with any religion.. anyway there are a few things that caught my attention during this service as i normally tune out but they were talking about how jesus was telling a parragul (sp?

) about sowing the seeds and then it all came flooding back of the memories about how the jw used this, and you know it was strange as this church was saying things almost identical to what the jw would say.. this is not what i was wanting to mention but i thought this was interesting.. so after all the service they have a morning tea for everyone afterward and i got talking to the minister/father/pastor (don't know what the head person called) wife and the subject come about christmas and i told her that this was not as important as when jesus died and that he wasn't even born on 25th december she was taken back that he was not born on this day as i told her he was born earlier in the year and i explained how this is the reason, she was gob smacked!.

i thought this was common knowledge so i wonder if she will go back to her husband and ask questions if this is true.. so i ask the question is it common knowledge that jesus was not born on this day and it is a pagan holiday or is it a jw thing.

aikichristian

When you start out in a new faith, you still need to grow in it even though you may be a full member.

Your new religion uses the Bible, and so does the JWs. So, don't be surprised if you hear some of the same themes. Each Christian (or claiming to be Christian) religion bear similarities between them. Some even use the same translation of the Bible.

There are many things you will have to unlearn, learn, and relearn as you continue in your new faith-walk.

This is akin to starting a new habit or breaking an old one. But in this case, it is both. That is why conversion and growth is a difficult and not-short process. It takes investment, which is why your decision (or compulsion) to switch must be done for very good and concrete reasons.

Christmas is a very hard thing for JW's and recently former JW's to understand or accept. Dec 25th was designated the day of the celebration of Christ's birth. It is not so much the exact date that is important, but more the reason WHY it is celebrated. True, Christ's death and ressurection is more important, but if He was not born, then He could not have died for our sins. Additionally, the birth of Christ, one whatever day it occurred, was honored by shepards, angels, and the 3 kings/magi/wise men.

78

Is practicing Capoeira wrong/bad/discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses?

by aikichristian in

my girlfriend used to be an avid capoeira practicioner for over year.

she has reaped many benefits from it: increased physical fitness, flexibility, some self-defense skills, and stress-relief.

she enjoyed it.. unfortunately, an article came out in the spanish version of the "watchtower" ("atalaya" in spanish) essentially saying that capoeira should not be practiced because it has some spirituality stuff in it that was wrong.

aikichristian

Firstly, I don't know where this thread went from "Capoeira" to the importance of Jehovah's name in just a few posts. The importance of Jehovah's name is not in question in this thread. Lets get back on track.

If you're a Catholic, and she's supposed to be a Jehovah's Witness, then Jehovah's name is very much involved. Both groups use Jehovah's name in their worship as so are accountable to Jehovah for how they use that name. One is not to mix true worship and false. Syncretism is forbidden in the Holy Scriptures, since Jehovah is a God exacting excusive devotion.
When the Watchtower gives a straight ruling, it stands. Jehovah wants a united people, after all.
If Jehovah's Witnesses are so worried about men learning about war, then why do they concern themselves with "spiritual battles", sin, and disharmony in the congregation?
Ephesians 6:12 gives a concise answer.
What 1 Tim 4:5 says is true, but it doesn't dismiss bodily training altogether nor does it discourage it. Martial-arts can be used for the glory of Jehovah in the following ways:
the increased physical fitness improves one's health and ability to perform the work of Jehovah. For example, you can do more door-to-door ministry, carry more pamphlets, and not get as tired as you once were.
the disclipine and perseverence necessary in martial arts can be applied to your spiritual growth, therefore making you a stronger and more durable believer. Also, at some point, you may be asked to teach newcomers teachniques they know nothing about. This can be applied to in evangelization...it improves your ability to teach!
the self-defense skills will help you preserve your body from harm and even help defend your congregation members from attack as well. This will help you continue item #1.
certain philosophies of martial arts are in-line with Bible teaching. The re-emphasis of such "good" things will only be of benefit.
Understanding and experience with physical combat can aid in your spiritual struggles as well.
This is false reasoning because Jehovah can give His people the power beyond what is normal; they are His fellow-workers, after all, and do not need to be taught the dark side to overcome it. Sound thinking ability often avoids a confrontation. Preventation is better than cure, after all.
If you're a JW, and ever had block an attack, defend yourself, spank your kids, kick a dog, rough-house/horse-play, reenacted a scene from a martial arts movie, hit an object in frustration....then guess what?
you used a technique found in nearly all martial arts styles! And if you think spanking your kids is not a MA technique....look at a Kung-fu book and get back to me....its an open-handed strike.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't "have to" do anything; they have free will.

I agree that Jehovah wants a united people, that was never part of my question, nor part of this topic. Answer to Eph 6:12: Did it ever occur to you that principalities are composed of people, who are made of flesh and blood? Ephesians 6:12 is just warning us about focusing or limiting our struggle to just the flesh, because that is not the ultimate struggle. It still does not say that one shouldn't know how to protect their physical bodies as well. One's physical actions are very important in doing Jehovah's work, and protecting it and those of others is necessary in order to continue or fulfill said work. Additionally, one can only learn as a dichotomy (binary). You learn what is and what isn't (categorical). For example, how do you know what is a chair? Part of that knowledge of "chairs" stems from knowing what is not a chair as well. The same comes from knowing what is good and what is evil. You know what good is because you also know what isn't good. Same goes for evil. Unfortunately, we're stuck learning this way because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. In order to do and be good, it is necessary that you also know what is bad. Because if you don't know, then you're not accountable, and last time I checked, Jehovah likes accountable people. So, to make peace, you must know what war is [all about]. Answer to my "false reasoning": Jehovah can give people the power to do beyond the normal, but does he always and in every situation? When you stubbed your toe, it hurt right?...that seems pretty normal to me. Have you, or know anyone, who has been in a car accident, the victim of an attack, been injured/wronged, or any such thing? If so, then chances are they were being quite normal. The conclusion you drew from my statements regarding the benefits of martial arts for self-defense (and self-defense is permitted by Jehovah) is false. A presented a perfectly valid line of resoning and each statement is true. Both religiously and logically, I'm fine. You went outside the scope of my statement, which makes your answer quite weak if not totally null. Just because something is not necessary does not mean it is not beneficial. And if I defend myself physically, then couldn't it be possible that Jehovah gave me the power to do so? even against great odds? If so, then my reasoning is still valid and true. We are taught the dark side and the good side. We know of both because we, as imperfect people, do both. Try re-reading the Bible and you see it is full of the dynamics, criteria, limits, contexts, and examples of good AND evil. You can't prevent everything. Try thinking your way out when someone is choking the life out of you. What happened to all the "sound thinking" and prevention?......Martial arts to the rescue! Answer to my "have to": Don't mince words Fred. You know exactly what I meant. I know that everyone has Free Will. "Have to" was a figure of speech, just in case you didn't know.

7

Oh dear, I found some apostate material

by cultswatter in

http://en.allexperts.com/q/jehovah-s-witness-1617/happened-1935-1.htm.

those dang apostates!.

aikichristian

great post, i'm bookmarking it now.

24

The CATHOLIC doctrine of the Faithful and Discreet Slave??? Yes!!

by Terry in

majesterium (sacred tradition) is a technical theological term used in some christian traditions, primarily in the roman catholic and eastern orthodox traditions, to refer to the fundamental basis of church dogma.

the term refers to the "deposit of faith" that these churches hold was communicated by jesus christ to his first followers, and which they hold has been passed down (latin tradere, to hand over or hand down) through succeeding generations.

the church as a community, therefore, was the initial receiver, and has remained the guardian and codifier, of sacred tradition.

aikichristian

Lets not forget that the Bible was developed by the Catholic Church. The books of Bible were finalized by 397AD (Council of Carthage). It was reaffirmed in the Council of Trent (1545-1563). So the finalized contents of the Bible were decided long before the Protestant Reformation (approx. 1517 - 95 Thesis).

The Catholic Church, unlike the WTS uses more "concrete" Scriptural references in its claims to authority. Additionally, it does not limit heaven's capacity to 144,000 (Faithful and Discreet Slave class). The Church does not use the Faithful and Discreet Slave position as its basis for authority. No pope, saint, or religious has claimed themselves to be part of the 144,000. However, the Church does not believe that Christ left the interpretation of the Bible to just anyone who picks it up and reads it.

I think Jesus felt that His teachings were important enough to protect rather than just let the chips fall where they may. He wanted to make sure His truths were protected and authorized.

Why do you think that there are so many Christian denominations? There are over 30,000 in the United States alone. The method used to create so many denominations is because each person was left to their own devices while reading the Bible.

Martin Luther saw it one way.

John Calvin saw it another way.

Charles Taze Rusell saw it another way.

The list can go on and on. But what each of these men, some who are founders of their respective religions, is that they do not have any credible lineage of authority back to Christ. Nor did they receive direct authority from Christ to interpret or protect His Truths, because that would make them 2,000 years old.

The Catholics don't use the Faithful and Discreet Slave as their basis for authority. The WTS does. Catholic beliefs and doctrines have been more consistent, perhaps even unchanging, than the WTS who use the "light of truth is becoming brighter" argument when they're suddenly wrong.

Here are some of many verses which support the Catholic's position of authority:

Luke 10:16
1 Timothy 3:15
Romans 13:1-2
Matthew 28:18-20
Ephesians 2:19-20
Deuteronomy 17:8-12 (Old Testament example of the Magesterium/teaching authority)

The structure of salvation has always been ordered in a hierarchy. The more recent anarchigal structure (interpret it yourself, based on "Sola Scriptura") has lead to repeated fragmentations at a higher rate and magnitude than pre-Reformation. The WTS is just one of those many resultant fragmentations.

Unlike the WTS, the Catholic Church uses more concrete positions to defend itself and it has the history to back it up. The Catholic Church predates the Bible which you hold in your hand and read. The WTS will never possess it.

I cannot deny that the Catholic Church has been violent in its enforcement of its authority, but it is not alone. For example, governments frequently use violence and threats of violence to enforce its rules, and ideals. Also other Christian religions have done the same: Puritans (witch hunts), Religious Wars of the Middle Ages (Catholics vs Protestants), etc.

Assertion of authority, legitimately or illegitimately claimed/attained, is nothing new to human, or even animal history.

49

Why can't he let himself be happy?

by emilyblue in

i'm in love with a man who is a witness.

i am a pretty inactive protestant, meaning my parents were only able to drag me to church twice a year on christmas eve and easter morning.

he told me early into our relationship that he wanted to marry me and spend the rest of his life with me, and that he has never felt the love for anyone else like he does for me.

aikichristian

my relationship with my girlfriend is great....but we've kept the religions very separate. So, we've managed to avoid the clashes you are experiencing....but I don't know for how we should keep that separation. Our relationship lacks a spiritual union which is CRUCIAL to any serious relationship. I know that at some point my faith and her faith will meet. It will either be decided at the table or when the dust settles.

As for your situation:

Cut and run.

I had typed a bunch of stuff after that sentence, but deleted it after re-reading the previous posts.

Buy some cleats and run!

He is trying to control EVERY facet of your life: private, public, past, present, future, possessions, etc. He doesn't want "headship" he wants dictatorship. Plain and simple.

Unless your mom gave you a Ouija board, he shouldn't be demanding you to toss it.

He's a control freak because his childhood sucked, his mother still controls him, his previous marriages failed, his job sucks, his money sucks, and the icing is: he's JW. Everything is out of his control, including his faith-brain. So, guess who he is trying to control like a puppy?

You.

7

What can a JW (and I) expect as/if they leave the WTS?

by aikichristian in

my girlfriend of 3 years is a pretty strong jehovah's witness.

however, she has celebrated birthdays, 4th of july, halloween, and attended christmas (related) parties since being with me.

i'm catholic, btw.. now, many of you may think i'm "winning", but she still goes to hall 2x/week and her book study.

aikichristian

My girlfriend of 3 years is a pretty strong Jehovah's Witness. However, she has celebrated birthdays, 4th of July, Halloween, and attended Christmas (related) parties since being with me. I'm Catholic, btw.

Now, many of you may think I'm "winning", but she still goes to Hall 2x/week and her Book Study. So, I'm not sure that I have put such a big dent. Although it is interesting to see her willfully celebrating things that her religion expressly forbids and deems pagan. I am uncertain of the extent to which her parents know of her "pagan" activities.

So, what should her and I expect to see and face should she decide to leave the WTS? Her whole family and all her good friends are practicing JWs. She was raised JW from birth too.

To become a non-JW would be difficult for her, to become Catholic would be a mental and spiritual 180 for her. The mental gymnastics I saw her do regarding Heb 1:1-14 was disturbing to me, not even ridiculous. Common sense just didn't work with her. I would ask her questions on that chapter like:

If Jesus was an angel, and angels were to worship only God (Jehovah), then why would He be suddenly ok with them worshipping another angel? (verse 6).
In Isaiah 44:6, God (Jehovah) asserts his superiority and absolute uniqueness, why would He endorse worship of anyone/anything other than Himself? Wouldn't He be dismissing the 1st Commandment?
What about John 5, especially verses 19-23? It is chaulk full of direct and implied statements of Jesus = God. Just because Jesus doesn't work alone, doesn't make Him an angel/archangel.

She showed me a bunch of verses that supported her view, but none of them addressed how God could suddenly be ok with His angels and his people honoring/worshipping another angel, that is, not God. The quickness she jumped into those verses was like my words just bounced off her head. She just turned it off! (reason, logic, common sense) Rather than answer the question, she just spat out some verses at me.

This is what I am up against, and should she decide to leave....to even become just a non-JW...is up against. What is in store?

78

Is practicing Capoeira wrong/bad/discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses?

by aikichristian in

my girlfriend used to be an avid capoeira practicioner for over year.

she has reaped many benefits from it: increased physical fitness, flexibility, some self-defense skills, and stress-relief.

she enjoyed it.. unfortunately, an article came out in the spanish version of the "watchtower" ("atalaya" in spanish) essentially saying that capoeira should not be practiced because it has some spirituality stuff in it that was wrong.

aikichristian

I'm Catholic, she is a Jehovah's Witness.

For a while she went "underground" with the Capoeira thing, but dropped it because it was getting harder to hide the "i just finished working out in Capoeira for 3 hours" sweat and blisters on her feet. She has very nice feet, the blisters were the only downside of Capoeira I saw. She would be in disobedience to her parents, but not because it was their rule...because the "Watchtower" said so. In that scenario, her mother wasn't even thinking for herself. There was no further investigation into the matter...the magazine said it, and that was that.

If Jehovah's Witnesses are so worried about men learning about war, then why do they concern themselves with "spiritual battles", sin, and disharmony in the congregation?

To be good, you have to learn how to fight sin.....but wait, JWs shouldn't learn belligerent acts/techniques. They're supposed to be peaceful even though the Biblical approach to purifying one's spirit and following God is described as difficult and violent...an internal war even.

Back to the thread topic, and SirNose586. As he quoted me so well, it bears repeating:
Christian balance requires understanding the Scriptural principles involved, and acting accordingly. It's more challenging to achieve than it may sound. The factors involved do change over time as the symbols and actions change meaning within the cultures over time (both the culture of the many, and the culture of Jehovah's Witnesses).
The WT has presented well-reasoned articles over the years on the changes in meaning of many things, among them baptism, wedding rings, and baby showers. Why, even the Bible itself speaks of the Jews' many other baptisms, which were not required among Jehovah's Witnesses, whether in the 1st century CE or now. As for the clinking of glasses, the clinkers are not raising their songbooks and voices in praise of Jehovah, are they? And even if they were, is it drinking of alcohol, or in this thread, martial-arts training that improves outcomes in decision-making? Hardly! Rather, as the Good Book says, at 1 Timothy 4:5, "bodily training is beneficial for a little; but godly devotion is beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and that which is to come." Articles, such as are found in the Watchtower and Awake!, provide us with what we need at the proper time. Let us not go beyond what is written, even here.

What 1 Tim 4:5 says is true, but it doesn't dismiss bodily training altogether nor does it discourage it. Martial-arts can be used for the glory of Jehovah in the following ways:

the increased physical fitness improves one's health and ability to perform the work of Jehovah. For example, you can do more door-to-door ministry, carry more pamphlets, and not get as tired as you once were.
the disclipine and perseverence necessary in martial arts can be applied to your spiritual growth, therefore making you a stronger and more durable believer. Also, at some point, you may be asked to teach newcomers teachniques they know nothing about. This can be applied to in evangelization...it improves your ability to teach!
the self-defense skills will help you preserve your body from harm and even help defend your congregation members from attack as well. This will help you continue item #1.
certain philosophies of martial arts are in-line with Bible teaching. The re-emphasis of such "good" things will only be of benefit.
Understanding and experience with physical combat can aid in your spiritual struggles as well.

If you're a JW, and ever had block an attack, defend yourself, spank your kids, kick a dog, rough-house/horse-play, reenacted a scene from a martial arts movie, hit an object in frustration....then guess what?

you used a technique found in nearly all martial arts styles! And if you think spanking your kids is not a MA technique....look at a Kung-fu book and get back to me....its an open-handed strike.

78

Is practicing Capoeira wrong/bad/discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses?

by aikichristian in

my girlfriend used to be an avid capoeira practicioner for over year.

she has reaped many benefits from it: increased physical fitness, flexibility, some self-defense skills, and stress-relief.

she enjoyed it.. unfortunately, an article came out in the spanish version of the "watchtower" ("atalaya" in spanish) essentially saying that capoeira should not be practiced because it has some spirituality stuff in it that was wrong.

aikichristian

My girlfriend used to be an avid Capoeira practicioner for over year. She has reaped many benefits from it: increased physical fitness, flexibility, some self-defense skills, and stress-relief. She enjoyed it.

Unfortunately, an article came out in the Spanish version of the "Watchtower" ("Atalaya" in spanish) essentially saying that Capoeira should not be practiced because it has some spirituality stuff in it that was wrong. The article came out about year (or a little more) ago. So, her mother showed her this article and pressured her into giving up the martial art...therefore, causing her to give up one of her few, very effective stress-relieving activities.

Now, my girlfriend had practiced this martial art and was very aware of its history. It did originate in Africa and many Africans had animistic beliefs. When the African slaves were brought to Brazil, they concealed these combative techniques within dance. During her time doing Capoeira, she knew of its history and roots and NEVER encountered problems or the topic of animism in her Capoeira. They did encourage values such as: family, practice, courtesy, hard-work, perseverence, hope, and the like. None of these are in conflict with Bible teaching. She was never asked, nor have they practiced, prayers/meditations to any person, place, or thing; or to perform dances for animistic reasons.

I would like her to get back into Capoeira, but if this is true: that Capoeira should not be practiced, then she will not be able. I am also hesitant to recommend any other martial arts to her because of their origins and the concern that the Watchtower may discourage them as well. I practice Judo and Aikido, both are Japanese martial arts. Japan's dominate religion is Shinto. Should stop practicing Judo and Aikido for competition, self-defense, and exercise?

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind it all? If possible, provide Scripture reference to support it. I just don't understand.

To me, it is telling me something like:

"You should not drink coffee that came from Africa because the person who cultivated it was an Animist."