Posts by Farkel

17

WTBS Made a Huge Mistake!

by patio34 in

jw
friends

i was tempted to write the wtbs today.

i'm reading a loaned copy (from my younger sister, 'waiting') of ray franz's "in search of christian freedom.

" it is a masterful point-by-point refutation of the wts doctrine.

Farkel

Wait until you get to the chapter on the Misue of Disfellowshiping. If that won't make you foam-at-the mouth then you are not sufficiently motiviated.

Look at that picture of that 80-90+ plus old guy (Percy, something) I've loaned my copy out, so I cannot reference it right now. Here's a guy with what? fifty years of service to the Corp.? He's DFd for questioning the "generation" issue, which the society quietly changed later. He DIED DF and he had it RIGHT to begin with.

Who are these assholes who screw up people's lives, and why will not the R&F stop these assholes from hurting people any longer?

I don't know. I'm doin' MY best!

Farkel

34

Eight questions about Nathan Knorr

by Skimmer in

jw
friends

i have some questions about nathan knorr, the third president (1942-1977) of the wtbts.

accurate answers are welcome.. 1) how did it come about that knorr was made president of the wtbts in 1942 after the death of joseph rutherford?

rutherford as we know was an usurper inheritor of russell's wtbts in late 1916 after russell went to his reward.

Farkel

Skimmer,

: The story about Rutherford being secretly buried in the middle of the night is almost too strange to be credible.

You might change your opinion if you can get a hold of several of the 1942 Consolation magazines (around May of that year) and read how the society vilified the City of San Diego for their refusal to allow Da Drunk's body to be buried at first: Beth Sarim and second, Beth Shan. I used to have those issues and remember how much hatred the society hurled against the City of San Diego. Of course, maybe it wasn't as bad I as remember, because I haven't read the full articles in over thirty years. But the society was definitely trying to stir up a publicity campaign to get San Deigo Officials to change their minds. Knowing how vindictive WTS officials can be, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that they interred old Joe's body in secret and at night on that property.

Keep in mind that Beth Shan (which is just accros a canyon from Beth Sarim) which is every bit as big (5,100 approx. square feet of home) was built in total secrecy: it had a locked fence guarded by WT goons to the road which led up the property and no one who wasn't part of its construction was allowed through those gates.

Rutherford had not one, but TWO bomb shelters built for his protection on that property, which was completed in 1939, just as WWII was starting. Rutherford fully expected WWII the bring on Armageddon, and instead of "trusting in Jehovah" to protect him (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!) he trusted in his two bomb shelters, one of which had a ceiling of cement three feet thick!

AlanF: if you have the time, perhaps you could post some excepts from those 1942 Consolation magazines to let the folks know just how pissed off the Society was when old Joe couldn't be buried in his mansion(s) built and paid for by the sweat and lives of his dumb-dub followers.

Farkel

10

A Sad Example of Hidden Bigotry

by hawkaw in

jw
friends

i would like to personally thank marvin shilmer for having the guts to publish the april 25, 2001 letter to all elders in the usa from the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses on personal viewpoints.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6063&site=3.

i posted this letter with the below following comments in my office cafeteria for all including a "weak one" to see.. my comment went.

"a sad example of hidden bigotry" .

Farkel

: So how is the "left" coast doing?

We're finally getting some sunny weather! Until today, it was gloomy for almost a week.

With regards to your statement that the "only" difference between dark/light skinned people is the concentration of vitamin D; of course you know there are other differences, too, and all of them are miniscule.

Dark skinned people DO have a higher concentration of melanin, though, so that is another minor difference.

http://www.bayinsider.com/shared/health/adam/ency/article/002256.html

Farkel

10

A Sad Example of Hidden Bigotry

by hawkaw in

jw
friends

i would like to personally thank marvin shilmer for having the guts to publish the april 25, 2001 letter to all elders in the usa from the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses on personal viewpoints.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6063&site=3.

i posted this letter with the below following comments in my office cafeteria for all including a "weak one" to see.. my comment went.

"a sad example of hidden bigotry" .

Farkel

Good observations, Hackaw.

I just have one correction:

: The only difference between an African and a European is the concentration of vitamin D in the skin.

I believe you meant melanin which is a blackish pigment found in the skin and hair. Darker skinned people have a greater concentration of it than fairer skinned people.

Some reason to be a racist, huh? "Hey! My pigment is less than your pigment. Therefore, you're inferior!"

But, as you pointed out, it is no more idiotic than this: "Hey! My 'spirituality' is greater than your 'spirituality!' Therefore I'm shunning you and from now on and until you meet my standards, I'm considering you to be 'dead.'"

Farkel

34

Eight questions about Nathan Knorr

by Skimmer in

jw
friends

i have some questions about nathan knorr, the third president (1942-1977) of the wtbts.

accurate answers are welcome.. 1) how did it come about that knorr was made president of the wtbts in 1942 after the death of joseph rutherford?

rutherford as we know was an usurper inheritor of russell's wtbts in late 1916 after russell went to his reward.

Farkel

I'll shoot from the hip:

: 1) How did it come about that Knorr was made president of the WTBTS in 1942 after the death of Joseph Rutherford? Rutherford as we know was an usurper inheritor of Russell's WTBTS in late 1916 after Russell went to his reward. Since Rutherford knew he was dying in 1942, did he try to extend his influence beyond the grave and so hand pick Knorr in a hope to retain the policies at the time?

Rutherford hand-picked Knorr to be his successor. He wouldn't hand-pick anyone who he didn't trust.

: 2) Is it accurate to say that Knorr was nearly single handedly responsible for the prohibition on blood transfusions?

I would guess that it was Fred Franz who was the one more responsible. Knorr wasn't a doctrine guy. He was an organizer.

: 3) Is it accurate to say that Knorr was nearly single handedly responsible for the establishment of the modern shunning doctrine?

Once again, I would guess that mantle went to Franz.

: 4) There was a report that Brooklyn Bethel residency was off limits to married people -- until the day that Knorr got married. Is this true?

Yes. Absolutely. Soon after he married Audrey, the rules were relaxed.

: 5) There was also a report that Knorr was a closeted homosexual, and that his marriage was a sham and a cover-up. Is this accurate?

I've heard that Audrey complained they never consummated their marriage, or at the very least she was sexually frustrated. Knorr was obsessed with sex, though. There were rumors about he being a homosexual but there is no evidence for it.

: 6) Where is Knorr buried? I doubt if he has a pyramid grave site marker like Russell, but it still might be interesting to get a photo on the web. For that matter, where are Rutherford and Fred Franz planted?

Knorr and Franz are buried on the WT "Launching Pad." I think that is at one of the society's farms. From what I know, Fred Franz has told several people that Rutherford was secretely buried late at night at Beth Sarim. I believe even Randy Watters heard that story while he was at Bethel.

: 7) If Knorr was responsible for most of the post 1942 quack medicine and disfellowshipping teachings, do you think he has more blame for total human suffering than all the other WTBTS leaders put together?

He wasn't responsible for that stuff. Fred Franz made almost all of the JW doctrinal decisions and Knorr rarely overruled him. Ray Franz has stated this. The evils that Franz did and the evils that Rutherford did are like comparing apples to oranges. I believe that overall Rutherford caused the most damage, because the iron-grip the society has on the lives of its followers still exists today, whereas most of Franz's wacky teaching has been quietly discarded. There's a lot more I could elaborate about on this, but I don't have much time for this response.

: 8) Why do you think that Knorr established the general policy on anonymity for WTBTS writings?

Probably because JFR has his name attached to EVERYTHiNG he wrote, and Knorr had to distance the society from him just like Rutherford tried to distance the society from Russell. Corporate politics and good business.

Farkel

5

Lost Souls of the WTS

by FreePeace in

jw
friends

i spoke with my mom earlier today on the phone.

it seems that she is discouraged, and her df'd son (me) is the only one who will give her some comfort.. she has been trying to witness to those in nursing homes for many, many years, and runs into all kinds of roadblocks from my dad (an elder) and the congregation, to the nursing home officials.

she honestly and sincerely tries to help these older people.

Farkel

Hi Freepeace,

: They are like lost souls, desperately trying to validate their own existence. After so many years, and so many promises, still nothing…no Armageddon; no Paradise Earth; no nothing. They have traded all their years and youthful vitality for empty promises…a handful of shit. Now, at close to 70 years old, they are emotionally and expectationally bankrupt. They are tired…just tired.

I vividly remember forty years ago when your folks and the Jones's, Elmers, Peterson and Delullos would come over to our house for a nice meal, laughs and a thoroughly enjoyable evening. My dad loved his barbecue and my parents loved to entertain the Friends. Of course, alcohol flowed freely, and so did lips after a while. I had just entered my teens. I played Kingdom Songs and everyone sang with JOY!

Your mother was a beautiful redhead, so full of life and vigor and was always very fond of me. Your dad was revered as a "scholar." After all, he had been a missionary with your mom and Bethelite. He spoke Japanese. We were all awed by his "spiritual maturity" and knowledge.

My folks were young too, and full of that same life. There was no drudgery in the religion back then. After all, Armageddon was just around the corner, and they were all so YOUNG and energetic.

Like your parents, mine are also washed up, tired, used. Even after a full fifty years in the organization, my mother has one one peer to share her misery with: your mom. My dad was temporarily in a rest home, and will soon be permanently in one. He cannot remember a thing about those days, any more; the joy, the fun, the old friends.

Will the Watchtower Corporation (or even those in their own congregation) mourn when they're gone. I doubt it. They're still too busy trying to save their own asses. Fools. They'll all end up the same way.

My life is pretty low right now, but thank whoever, I'm not stuck in that blood-sucking, lying cult anymore.

Thanks for sharing that, Freepeace. I just want to cry when I think about what our folks have lost and what could have been for them.

Farkel

19

Dear Brother "You Know"

by AMNESIAN in

jw
friends

brother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the wbts and, particularly, the gb in relation to bible prophecy, christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for jehovah?

much of what you post (or, at least, the posts i've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters.

i don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!

Farkel

: It has also served a vital function in drawing into focus the long obscured scriptural issues having to do with the vindication of God's sovereignty when Christ's kingdom comes completely into power, as well as the issues involving our integrity to God

The notion of "vindicating God's sovereignty" is so idiotic I don't know how dubs can swallow it. Oh, I forgot: they're braindead.

God IS sovereign, period. Nothing to prove. He created everything and he can destroy everything, including "Satan" and his "hoards" of deeeminnnz. You don't believe in God, he kills you. You believe in God and do your best to "vindicate His sovereignty," he kill you anyway. So far, every single dead person on this planet has been killed directly because of choices God made; every person dying at this very moment is dying directly because of choices God made. So He has NOTHING to prove. He's the boss and we are schmucks and he lets us die without doing a damn thing about it. Doesn't matter what we do or don't do.

On the other hand, Satan has never killed anyone. He can't. God won't let him. So God HAS ALREADY WON. There is no way he could lose. If Satan is so horribly wicked, then why does God do virtually ALL of the killing? Why won't God let Satan have some of the killing fun, too?

If Satan suceeded in getting virtually EVERY HUMAN being who lives and has ever lived to worship him and flat-out reject God, would God turn over sovereignty to him? NO! He would kill him and everybody else anyway. Simply put, Satan is in a lose-lose situation.

The whole issue of God being "vindicated" is so contemptibly idiotic that I cannot believe anyone could ever buy it. God's deal is this: worship me my way or I'll kill you and you will be dead forever and ever and ever. It's not vindication of anything, YK. It's blackmail, and the whole planet is being blackmailed.

I don't worship Gods who blackmail their own children, and even when they comply kills them by letting them die, anyway.

Farkel

38

Adam to be Resurrected - Yes?

by Focus in

jw
friends

will adam be resurrected?.

focus.

(anti-flipfloppery class)

Farkel

: The same will happen with all those "destroyed" in the flesh such as Sodom and Gomorrah, Cannanites, Edomites, etc. All will stand before the Judgement seat. And the Judge will decide who gets life, and who doesn't.

Didn't God get it right the first time when he destroyed all those people? If he did, there would be no reason to stand again and be judged. Those guys are already croaked and have been for millenia.

If, on the other hand God deems them to be worthy of life, then why did he personally kill them before?

It makes not a shred of sense.

Farkel

54

WHY THE WORLD IS DOOMED

by You Know in

jw
friends

in referring to the preflood world, peter said that the heavens and the earth had been stored up with water, and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.

the christian prophet went on to say: "by the same word, the heavens and the earth that are now stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of the judgment and of the destruction of ungodly men.

in furtherance of highlighting the apostate's blasphemy that jehovah is going to come streaking out of the clear blue sky one fine day and slaughter billions of innocents while they sleep in their beds, the apostle's brief comments on the topic of jehovah's judgments contains some interesting insights.

Farkel

: The reality is that this system is going down. Just because it didn't blow up last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, doesn't mean that it ain't going down.

Of COURSE "this" system is going down, you nitwit! ALL systems go down, sooner or later. Anyone who knows anything about history knows that. Your fatal flaw in your massively windbagging rants is summed up in these two problems:

1) WHEN it is going down and
2) WHY it will go down.

So far, you failed on both counts. "Jehovah" had nothing to do with ANY world power "going down" according to the Bible, so only a crackpot would would say that he would have anything to do with the current world power (and its dependent "systems") going down. That deals with the "why" part. And as far as the "when," it will "go down", well, I think there have been ample evidence produced that you are clueless about that, too. Every year you predict. Every year you fail. Why would "Jehovah" use such a hopeless loser as you to spread his word and his plans, YK? What prophet in the Bible was as worthless a prophet as you? Can you name one? Just any one will do. Just one. You need some credibility here, so just name one. One, even.

Of course, you are pulling our chains and love the chum you toss out, don't you? The problem is, you accomplish nothing except to salve your own pitiful ego. I'm not sure which is more pathetic: your rants or the attention you crave and get from them.

Farkel

14

You Know, what a clown

by Cygnus in

jw
friends

i see you know is back.

i haven't been keeping up with the boards in some time, but i see that robert is still here, trying to support his rather unique blend of larouche/rutherfordian end-time predictions.. well, i happened across the thread between yk and amazing, and i noticed that yk once again had his facts in error.

he said that larouche got 25% of the democratic primary vote in arkansas in 2000. i assume he meant 2000, because larouche wasn't close to 25% in 1996. well, the fact is that larouche only got 21.53% of the primary vote in arkansas in 2000. is that such a big number so as to make larouche a real, viable candidate?

Farkel

Amazing,

: He really brunt hisself with this LaRoach (er, I mean LaRouche) thing, and clearly discredited himself.

Au contraire, mi amie! In order to discredit, there must first be credit (credibility). YK has had none for years. From the first day he started posting more than just scriptures without comment, he has stubbornly rejected the notion that the best way to get out of a hole is to quit using the shovel.

The "YK Beat Goes On....yahdee-dahdee-deeeeee. Yahdee-dahdee-dah."

Farkel