Posts by StephaneLaliberte

43

Anthony Morris responds to Norway's denial of financial aid

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

https://direkte.vg.no/nyhetsdognet/news/jehovas-vitner-nektes-statsstoette.5z-pnao3e?utm_source=share-btn.

08:20 27.1.kristoffer solberg.

jehovah's witnesses denied state aid.

StephaneLaliberte

I wonder - so as not to be seen as discriminating/persecuting JW's - if the Norwegian government will target any other religion for their unpleasant practices, and create new laws to deal with them?

The practice of enforcing shunning among the JWs is beyond "unpleasant". It isn't simply: You should keep away from people who left our group. It's: If you don't follow this practice, you will also suffer shunning as we'll throw you out as well!

Unpleasant would be more like, this person ...

is the only one in your group who doesn't eat pork
will not go to war (assuming they are a small minority in your country)
will never work on sundays
will not celebrate christmas or halloween on your street
will preach all the time
will ask for special time off due to religion
etc.

Enforcing disfellowshipping goes beyond mild inconvenience by threatening the freedom to choose your beliefs, your religion; the very thing they demand!

How would they react if people, upon hearing that they are JWs, would stop talking to them completely, shun them and not hire them anywhere? They would cry out "Persecution!" from the rooftops. But when THEY do it, it's ok? They're hypocrisy is loathsome.

43

Anthony Morris responds to Norway's denial of financial aid

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

https://direkte.vg.no/nyhetsdognet/news/jehovas-vitner-nektes-statsstoette.5z-pnao3e?utm_source=share-btn.

08:20 27.1.kristoffer solberg.

jehovah's witnesses denied state aid.

StephaneLaliberte

I'm very happy to see this. I think this is the right way to go. Make it clear that the reason this religion is not recognized is due to a specific belief.

The only thing though: when Anthony Morris says: "We have the right to disfellowship", I'm not sure if the rank and files hear:

1) You have the right to "disfellowship" whoever you want from your life.

-- Afterall, people don't need religion to keep toxic people out of their lives. So, nothing really wrong about that.

OR

2) Watchtower has the right to order you, under threat, to disfellowship specific individuals as they see fit.

The problem with JWs is that it's not a personal choice. Either you ignore who we tell you to, or you'll suffer the consequence of being expelled from our group, thereby, being ostracised as well. This is a very big threat when you consider that for many people, this is in fact their entire social construct.

I just hope that people inside can make the difference between these two.

26

Noah's Ark - Kentucky

by BoogerMan in

jw
friends

regardless of belief/non-belief in the bible account, why is the ark nearly always depicted by both believers & non-believers as a huge boat, with a rounded hull & stern, and a tapered bow?

https://arkencounter.com/ .

the ark was crate shaped according to the measurements.

StephaneLaliberte

The bible doesn't describe the shape, it simply gave the height, width and depth. From there, Noah could have made it a box shape or a boat shape; Both options are valid as both can be measured the same way.

It just amazes me how JWs are almost offended at the sight of a boat shaped arc because that's not the way its been drawn by Watchtower artists.

21

Another HUGE Building Project

by pontoon in

jw
friends

i haven't been on site in a while, don't know if has been discussed but here is a link.

https://rcbizjournal.com/2022/09/29/watchtower-bible-world-headquarters-project-in-ramapo-moves-ahead.

StephaneLaliberte

I'm looking at this and all I see is a lot of people must've signed over their inheritage to ~~God~~ Watchtower. Think about it... how many other non-for-profit organizations do you see with that much real estates? Only religion has that pull on people's final will.

15

Another diabolical, disingenuous, nutcase illustration

by Beth Sarim in

this has been weighing on my mind all day,.

i just have to vent and get this off my chest.. the latest jw brainwashing, indoctrination session i think it was a broadcast.

toward the end where the speaker was spouting-off about being in a 'race' again and 'enduring until the end',.

StephaneLaliberte

I agree that the example never made much sense to me, but to their credit, its actually an example that was provided by the Paul in the bible.

8

January 2023 Study Watchtower - both sides of the mouth!

by BoogerMan in

i've added to it in bold letters:.

january 2023 study watchtower, page 20, pars.

1 - 3.. almost 2,000 years ago, jesus gave his life in our behalf, opening the way for us to gain everlasting life.

StephaneLaliberte

And Paul wrote to the corinthians: "Let us preach to all who are not part of us, to join us for the Lord's meal, which he established to commemorate his death. Let us go forth and instruct them that they are no longer to celebrate the pass over as their fathers and forefathers have done for a thousand years since it was put in place by Mose our prophet. No longer shall they partake in a pass over meal with their families in their own houses. Christ was nailed on the torture stake so that all those who believe in him may now, once a year, join us at our public place of worship in order to celebrate the new covenant of which the vast majority are not part of. They are now to silently observe those who are part of the new covenant take a small taste of wine and a small bit of bread. And while no one is to be physically fed during this lord's meal, let us feed ourselves on spiritual food as we preach and praise our lord for the greater part of our celebration."

23

WT Style Pacificism

by Sea Breeze in

episode 203 of netflix ... i am a killer looks at the murder of christopher chavez in texas.

christopher chavez was a 22 year old ministerial servant and a born-in son of an jw elder.

after a thursday night meeting and a quick bite to eat afterwards with friends at a local restaurant, he was kidnapped, taken to a gas station and forced to drive his killers around for hours while they were in the back seat.

StephaneLaliberte

I grew up in the JW and my stand on protection has never changed since I was a kid: You don't start fights but you are allowed to finish 'em.

Concerning the situation in the OP, I would've tried to find an escape route or tried to fight back. But honestly, it's much harder than it sounds. Fighting looks easy in the movies but when you never ever fight and never consider it, it is much more difficult to gather the courage to fight back. So, even if we say: In the same position, I would have done this or that, perhaps we'd have behaved like him: scared frozen like deers in the headlights.

About the rules for self defense, in Canada, they're very similar to the Watchtower's. If someone walks in your house with a deadly weapon (baseball bat, gun, knife, crossbow, etc), you maybe allowed to harm them with the weapon of your choice. The question that will come up is: Could you flee or were you cornered and have no other choice?

If they don't carry anything, I'm not even sure you have the right to fight them out of your house. You are basically expected to call the cops and wait for them. The idea is that you are not allowed to protect material possessions. If you think about it, it's basically what the Watchtower teaches.

Honestly, I don't like that reasoning. If it were to me, it would be like the states: Stand your grounds. Your home is your safe place and you should be able to use maximum force to protect it.

21

question for those who either aux pioneered pioneered

by enoughisenough in

how many of you would have spent the hours "pioneering" if it weren't for the pats on the back and being looked up to as someone special in the congregation?

i will admit that back in late 1970's i attempted to aux pioneer during a campaign because it was promoted and seemed the right thing to do,but i didn't get the hours and it was stressful trying to...and i didn't feel like a cheerful giver.

i never attempted it again.

StephaneLaliberte

When I was younger, around 13 to 18, I would often pioneer in the month of August as I would work and enjoy the summer in July. And yet, my congregations didn't often go in field service in August. Most of the pioneers would pull there hours for the year by the end of July and take it easy in August. As a result, I was often going out alone, door to door, preaching. I enjoyed it. I honestly had some engaging conversation and in some cases held company to some lonesome people willing to chill and talk.

I really believed that I was bringing something positive to my community and I guess that in some ways, I did. What's the harm in people thinking about their spiritual outlook on life? That's what often came out of me knocking on people's doors. Had I been successful in my attempt at bringing people into the "truth", perhaps I'd have a different outlook on it now. But those times I went out alone, I felt that people were speaking their minds and I was having real conversations, not just plain preaching. It was a two way street. I learned about other people's perspective on life and shared mine. I also believe that these honest conversations played a serious role in me eventually leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses.

That being said, I did invest way too much time in that stuff. I remember some days, I actually did 12 hours! Street witnessing in the morning (6am to 8:30am). Door to door between 9 and 12. break. Door to door from 1pm to 5pm. Field service in the evening at 6:30pm (finished late with a bible study). Man... I was a zealot.

28

Was Jesus the Messiah circumcised ?

by smiddy3 in

has this question ever been raised before by jehovah`s witnesses?

and what`s the significance, if any ?.

StephaneLaliberte

Of course he was... his parents practiced all the Jewish rituals. 40 days after his birth, they went to the temple with him to complete "pidyon haben" (redemption of the first born).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_of_Jesus_at_the_Temple#Scripture

43

Watchtower looses Norwegian Appeal

by Diogenesister in

watchtower has just lost its appeal in the norwegian courts over the withdrawal of the funding it receives from the government as an officially recognised religion.

the initial decision will now stand due to what the court termed 'exclusionary practices' which includes the witnesses barbaric practice of shunning minors, even by family members in their own homes.

the ministry of children and families have decided they are now no longer eligible for the state grant of 16 million norwegian kroner given to officially recognised religions.. the following is a statement has been issued, i have summarised if it isn't readable: .

StephaneLaliberte

Bravo! Bravo!!