Posts by StephaneLaliberte

10

Mind control

by joao in

wt has really been doing a great job at mind-controlling their members.

how can people who say they are your friends not even want to know why you're leaving when you want them to know?!

eh!

StephaneLaliberte

How can people who say they are your friends not even want to know why you're leaving when you want them to know?

Leaving your religion is not a simple process to undertake. It takes a whole lot of work and effort. In my case, I can say that it resulted in 1000s of hours of research and introspection. In the end, I lost most of my friends, many members of my family, changed the way I live my life and how I perceive the world around me. It’s a lot to deal with.

Undertaking something like this needs to come from within, not outside. If you try to push someone into this without them being ready, consequences could be dire (depression, mental break down, medicine, drugs, suicide). I still have some friends and family in the JWs and I don’t try to “burst” their bubble. As long as they are in a somewhat “good place” in their lives, why would I try to interfere?

So, today, I have some very limited friendship with some JWs. I would say that I agree, at this time, they are not the best of friends as we no longer have many things in common to talk about. Still, the fact that I understand that they do not want to hear anything to burst their reality doesn’t make me think less of them as individuals. They need this at this time in their lives and the fact that they don’t outright shun me is enough.

134

How far do we get away from 1914

by PimoElder in

how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

StephaneLaliberte

Having grown in the 80s when 1914 was still thought as fact, I never imagined that I’d finish high school before Armageddon. By the time they got to changing the meaning of the word generation, we were in the mid 90s and everyone was expecting it. It wasn’t a surprise. By than, many people, like me, didn’t believe in that prophecy anyway and saw the organization’s willingness to change as a good thing. I rationalized my faith on the thought that the JWs were the closest to what the Christians were in the first century. I didn’t see where else I could go and so I stayed.

I imagine that a lot of JWs are in this spot right now. They already don’t believe in it and when they drop it, it will be a small talk in a convention, and they will carry on to the Sunday drama like nothing happened. People will stay thinking they are in the best religion.

In my case, that bubble burst when my kids started repeating things we talked about at home. I realized that if my kids ever told anyone about how their father didn’t believe in the prophecies, that I could be disfellowshipped for apostacy. Worst, the religion I grew up in would, in time, instruct my own children to shun me. How could a love-based organization treat a father like this, for something as petty as not teaching frivolous believes? This practice alone proved that the religion is not based on Christian love; it will step over your Christian conscience attempting to survive and there is nothing Christian about that. That’s not love. So, without prophecies and without love, I ran out of excuses to stay there. I left, along with my wife and kids.

23

What are Jehovah's Witnesses' stance on home ownership?

by timothytha in

what do people usually think of when they buy a house?

"i will probably live here for a long time" (you're invested with your time), "i will save money by building equity over time".

(you've invested in yourself financially for the long run) of course, i wouldn't be able to list the numerous reasons why people want to buy a house.

StephaneLaliberte

A weird dynamic I have observed in the JWs is that the people with money actually do sustain the corporation through their donations but are generally judged for working full time and succeeding in this wicked world. On the other hand, pioneers spend hours upon hours in field service with little results and some don't even give financial donations reasoning that their time is enough. These are praised as spiritual and the pillars of the congregation!

14

Encouraged to do something = forced/intimidated

by neat blue dog in

in a recent article there was this experience from el salvador:.

"during the meeting, brother baltasar perla, sr., who later became a member of the branch committee, asked all the elders present to give him their government-issued identity cards.

he then informed the elders that their names and addresses would be included in a written request to the government for legal recognition... then explained to us that since our names and addresses would be in that document, if the authorities ever wanted to ban our work, we would be the first ones they would come after and the first ones to be thrown in jail.

StephaneLaliberte

Well, I guess that the persecution complex is still real and alive. Some people deliberately want to be martyrs. For the elders that were put in that position, well, they lack character. Even when I was a firm believer, I would have called out how stupid that plan is. I would even have called that brother a traitor.

Even to this day, I'd rather die then name people to an authoritarian country. Without any persecution in place, that guy decides to go ahead of the curb and name people?? What's wrong with him?

39

Who says the Pandemic didn't wake up a lot of people!

by pistolpete in

there are actually tons of these experiences.

i wanted to post this one because it involved all the family of born in jws.. post;.

all my freakn dreams came true.

StephaneLaliberte

We need to promote the idea that people make deliberate choices based on rational decisions.

This is actually something I've seen on this board through the years and one of the reasons I like this place soo much. From time to time, we see young folks ask questions on these forums and plenty of us make sound advises. I don't know if these advises are followed, but at least, this is a place they can come to in order to be shown things in a perspective they are not used to.

For instance, one of my favorites that I've seen plenty of time: Young ones that no longer believe should keep attending the meetings and go out in service and play along until they are done with college and then leave everything behind. Not simply go out in a blaze of glory, but carefully prepare their exit plan.

39

Who says the Pandemic didn't wake up a lot of people!

by pistolpete in

there are actually tons of these experiences.

i wanted to post this one because it involved all the family of born in jws.. post;.

all my freakn dreams came true.

StephaneLaliberte

Sorry, but this is childish and stupid. If you want sex, have sex. If you want to leave the WTS, just leave.

I understand what you mean Simon, people often take roads they don’t have to take and when others look into such stories, they can easily point to the foolishness of it all. However, the human mind is much more complex than this. These “choices” are the results of individuals living with constant influences from school, media, religion, family and friends, and their own individual perception of all of these. These perspectives on life often lead them to believe that they have next to no choices, that there is only one door to walk through, one road to walk. While many options were or are available all along, their field of view is blinded by all these emotions and confused minds.

Growing wiser, we understand the missed opportunities, the wrong choices we’ve made. But it means more, it also means that we take a pause before acting out on our thoughts and deliberately seek out other alternatives that we may have missed. We try to logically look at things, stripped from our emotions and ask the hard questions. Once we’ve identified more choices, then we are in a better position to do the right thing. Unfortunately, for a great deal of young people who’s life is tightly defined by their religion, this is excessively difficult and mayhem often ensues.

And like many young people who go through a phase where they are lost, the OP seems to have eventually found a path. A path that has ultimately shed light on the rest of his family.

20

Let's all bask in the reflected glory of actor Sean Penn ...

by LoveUniHateExams in

"i'll smelt my oscars if the academy awards doesn't let zelensky speak!".

wow, his virtue is so good i can't look at it directly, because it would blind me, lol.. yep, it's this year's oscar's ceremony.. prepare for next-level celebrity virtue signalling .... https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/mar/27/sean-penn-oscars-zelenskiy-ukraine .

StephaneLaliberte

So, I had to explain to my youngest kid why Will Smith was wrong.... I never, ever thought I'd had to do that about Will Smith.

10

The Governing Body KNOWS what Russia is going to do.

by pistolpete in

gb sanderson reminding the member what the russian war is all about.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/tng8ys/dont_even_know_what_to_say/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3.

StephaneLaliberte

JW leaders narcissistically teach they themselves are "spiritually" at the center of all major global events, and that the fate of the entire universe revolves around them.

When I came to that realization, I awaken to the fact I was in a cult.

I realized this when I visited Auschwitz. Millions of Jews murdered due to their race, millions of Catholics and protestants who resisted against the Nazis killed and murdered. But non of that matters to the Watchtower. What matters is the ~2,000 JWs who were murdered. Their sacrifice was certainly praise worthy and heroic, but they weren't the only ones who stood up for their values and against Hitler. Yet, when they talk about that period, they make it seem like they were the only righteous people in the world at that time.

Prayers didn't stop Hitler, bombs, tanks, ships and guns used by courageous people did.

44

Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW

by doasthouwilt in

i’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.

our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.

once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.

StephaneLaliberte

lying to herself by disallowing her natural feelings

Its not that simple. For instance, some people have a propension for violence. Its their natural inclination. They don't give into it cause they know its wrong. Its not because you don't give into natural feelings that you are lying to yourself. It simply means that you are keeping natural feelings under control to uphold your values.

In the case of your girlfriend, she is either a) lying to herself by staying with the JWs who are adamant about values that she does not share or b) she is willfully breaking her own values. The second option is the scary one. When someone willfully breaks with their own values, then they are at the mercy of they desires and this could have disastrous consequences to them and their loved ones. I underlined willfully as this is what it is when someone does an action that violate their values over a long period of time. This is not the same as a one night stand where someone temporarily give in to their baser instincts; it happens! But not in the case of your lady. Sorry to be so blunt about this.

44

Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW

by doasthouwilt in

i’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.

our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.

once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.

StephaneLaliberte

I know you are looking for the consequences, but I believe you are asking the wrong question. Like you, I’m agnostic, however, you need to work with HER logic and perspective of the reality she has constructed. Assuming you are being intimate, that would mean that she is cheating on her God. God has set a rule which she is vehemently breaking with you. Considering that God is supposed to be more important than anything else, including you, what does that tell you about her integrity? Integrity is not a word owned by religion. It also applies in marriage. By the fact that she’s pioneering, I’d assume that she strongly believes in a large portion of the teachings and thus violating her conscience when she gets intimate with you. That shows a severe lack of respect for her core beliefs and values.

You may believe that it is not such a big deal considering various Christian denominations where sexual immorality is tolerated, but for JWs, this is a very big deal, very big deal. Her ability to be doing this, without telling anyone, all the while pioneering is very telling.

She is not in a good place at all right now. She either needs to come to terms with the fact that she is not a JW and live happily ever after with you or she needs to stop doing what she is doing with you, confess, do things right by her faith, God and Religion. These sorts of decisions/changes will require lots of work on her end and this will require lots of time.