hi ya'll - this subject might've been addressed before, but i missed it if it was.
my daughter and i were talking the other day about how it's taught by the witnesses that anything one might buy from a yard sale, garage sale, or ebay(lol) - could be 'infected' with demons.
when dd was studying, the sister told her a first-person account that a tupperware bowl she'd bought at a garage sale that supposedly wreaked havoc in her home - she was physically attacked by an incubus-type demon - and it all stopped when she threw away that plastic bowl.. perhaps the best defense against them is indifference... i don't know.
Why does a true Christian fear demons? No place I'v every read in the bible? How does a true Christian not believe they exist? So perhaps a morbid fear of them cause a problem with them? Every group I have associated with after the witnesses has the same problems, that is, some people believe in them and some don't.
Christ never made a big deal about the problem or the apostle after Christ was raised some thing must have change since then?
hi ya'll - this subject might've been addressed before, but i missed it if it was.
my daughter and i were talking the other day about how it's taught by the witnesses that anything one might buy from a yard sale, garage sale, or ebay(lol) - could be 'infected' with demons.
when dd was studying, the sister told her a first-person account that a tupperware bowl she'd bought at a garage sale that supposedly wreaked havoc in her home - she was physically attacked by an incubus-type demon - and it all stopped when she threw away that plastic bowl.. perhaps the best defense against them is indifference... i don't know.
I know longer consider any man the authority on matters when it comes to faith not unless it is an expression of love . Christ is the last word and he was very forth right on the subject the rest is left to us and if we were once mislead then perhaps our motives aren't as pure as wind driven snow either.
hi ya'll - this subject might've been addressed before, but i missed it if it was.
my daughter and i were talking the other day about how it's taught by the witnesses that anything one might buy from a yard sale, garage sale, or ebay(lol) - could be 'infected' with demons.
when dd was studying, the sister told her a first-person account that a tupperware bowl she'd bought at a garage sale that supposedly wreaked havoc in her home - she was physically attacked by an incubus-type demon - and it all stopped when she threw away that plastic bowl.. perhaps the best defense against them is indifference... i don't know.
One thing us ex JWS are good at is judging black and white. But we don't like it when it's turned on us!
Millions of people in third world country have broken free from the demon control to them it is very real. There nothing that people can't use for good or bad but it does not mean it don't exist. And I know that our times is the center of the universe, but these problems have been recorded by people long before the belief of JWS.
The truth always is somewhere in the middle not on either extreme. It kinda like the person that gets mistreated by a person of another nationality and because that person was mistreated they believe everyone of that nationality is a liar.
Having said that I don't believe anyone should use the excuse that the devil made me do and it ok to hurt anyone.
we often hear it said: love the sinner, but; hate the sin.. we try and reform the child molester.
we put career criminals through rehabiliation.
we let the drunk driver off with a fine and a warning over and over until an innocent family is wiped out.. why separate the deed from the doer?
That I would agree with, but everyone can't be that honest or seperate the two. I don't think JW's had it right, but they did not have it all wrong on some of the basic. I believe the creation was subjected to fultility as stated in Romans and is a waiting be set free by Christ and the Son's of God. Governments are part of the fultility allow to keep things in check.
Christians should be above the need of being keep in check if they truely are being regenerated and renew by the God's spirit. On the other hand if they fall and break the law then they are held accountable for their actions.
There in lays the problem if the bible is correct much of what is in Christainty today is weeds and they really are not regenerated into a new person where their deepest desired is to please God and his commandments. Organization try to legislate morality through rules and punishment. But when there is no organizaton to inforce those rules most cannot stand and become worst people. In fact, it does not have to be a religious arrangement to become worst if someone is not always there to check on the person. Many people develope bad habits after getting away from tightly run groups like the Marines and so on.
Judging harshly becomes a problem for true Christain because the properity they are judging belongs to God and according to his word He paid an unpayable price to buy these people. Thus, if they are from God and being regenerated by God they are his childern and he will correct them. To give up on them and judge them as unworthy of God's mercy creats a sitution that states God made an mistake and if he made that mistake he does not have the power to correct it. Hence hate the wrong not the person.
I really it not rocket science for anyone that loves their children the concept is really easy to understand. We always love are children because we remember the good not the bad they grow into through bad relation bad friend experience we always remember the core person and hope they will come back to that core. God takes it a step further He promises he will bring them back to the core He plants in them at their birth.
i just finished the book by ray franz, coc, and for some reason i'm madder than ever at this organization!!!
i've been out for over 20 years and now i'm even more pissed off!!!!
why am i so angry at things i already knew although i'm sure i've just repressed them over the years and got on with my life, anyone else have this anger problem after reading this book, or is it just me??.
Me too of course I analysis everything to death after being a witnesses I finally conclude I am pissed at myself. I was super duped and liked it! Once you lose faith in your own judgment it make you distrust everything and everybody.
What really upsets you is to know the bible enough to realize that we were taught that all human arrangements would be exposed and people would lose faith in everything toward the end. Jeeeee! Look like we are going through what we wanted all other religions to go through, but not us!
It's really bad when you know in your heart all this is right and just exactly what we all really knew but the brain over powers reasonable thought. I think most of us like being control and the abuse because of insecurity and that is enough to make you anger. Not only did I like the control I controlled and it makes me sick everytime I have to recall my self-righteous stupidity.
The book just destroyed me at first because I realized I had hurt so many people. Next I realized we can justify anything with the bible. Finally God put me in contact with people that had child like faith and I started to realize they had more love for God in there little finger then I did in my whole body.
But I got it finally if God had not let all this happen plus it was what I needed in my life at the time I would not really know him now.
we often hear it said: love the sinner, but; hate the sin.. we try and reform the child molester.
we put career criminals through rehabiliation.
we let the drunk driver off with a fine and a warning over and over until an innocent family is wiped out.. why separate the deed from the doer?
If we lived in another world not so long ago in earth time we would all be kill for expressing thoughts so openly. I wonder how that affected their behaivor? If you were raise a Jew I wonder what your thought pattern we would have been. If you were raise a black person in the 1800 I wonder again what a person thought pattern would be?
We hate excuses strange phenomenon I never meant a person that was as hard on themself as their fellow-human when it comes excuses. I have yet to meet a person when they have a problem that doesn't want understanding and compassion.
Some interesting studies where a prison of woman were treated with diet alone and their personalities changed. We all have a diet of crap from the media it has no affects on people? If that were true then how have we went from a nation that used to spank kids to a nation that now fines it offensive to do so?
Every generation of the human race has been formed by the times they lived in for good or bad. Even Christains from the time of Christ. Any body with a half brain have meant people that have been reformed, transformed by faith or going to school or experiences.
The organization of JW's judges everyone to death accept themselves strange it seem to me that when one leaves they only thing the lose is God they keep the death part for everyone else. Perhaps thats what drews us to a judgmental organization in the first place?
For the judgment is merciless to those who have practied no mercy, whereas mercy triumphs over judgment.
hi ya'll - this subject might've been addressed before, but i missed it if it was.
my daughter and i were talking the other day about how it's taught by the witnesses that anything one might buy from a yard sale, garage sale, or ebay(lol) - could be 'infected' with demons.
when dd was studying, the sister told her a first-person account that a tupperware bowl she'd bought at a garage sale that supposedly wreaked havoc in her home - she was physically attacked by an incubus-type demon - and it all stopped when she threw away that plastic bowl.. perhaps the best defense against them is indifference... i don't know.
Truth being if a person associated with the witness actually had a demon problem they wouldn't know what to do with the person they would disfellowship them.
The witnesses appeal only to the left side of the brain they can't understand spiritual if it's not defined in black and white law and they can judge it. You must worship in spirit and truth. The bible is not frozen holy spirit reading the bible does not mean a person is worshipping with spirit and truth and becomes a spiritual person. The Jews read the Law daily and nowhere are they said to of worshipped in spirit and truth.
No spirit no demons no demons no God. Fear of demons leads to demons - Christ ascending to the Father was given authority over every thing including demons those confessing Christ receive everything they need to overcome the world by the spirit that spirit comes down from above not an organization.
Many of witness has ended up in mental hospitals over demons problems. Even people that have no beliefs recognize the outside effects of demon harshment. If a witnesses every had an experience with a demon they would be terrified and probably be forced to call on Christ for protection. And finally realize there is a spiritual world much bigger and more powerful they their rules.
so, here's the scripture:.
2:2 in the last days, the mountain of the lord's temple will be established as chief among the hills, and all nations will stream to it.
many peoples will come and say, "come, let us go up to the mountain of the lord, to the house of the god of jacob.
One thing has become clear to me that the truth requires God to teach us not a human organization. Mountains are always represented in God's words as Governments or arrangement that have control of his people. They are elvated but by who?
All the world wide religious groups today are in a state of confusion. People worldwide confess devotion to there personal groups or faith. When it fails them they cannot seperate God from that doctrine or the people of that group. Why? Because God is seen in people not in truth and spirit as He really is. Reproach upon reproach has been heap upon God and His Son in the name of all religions of the world.
But doesn't this very fact fulfill what God's word states in the story of the weeds among wheat? Did he not say that great drag nets would be let down in the end days to gather the fish. Have you ever seen a drag net - it is not pretty? It is cruel and destroyes everything in its wake. God's people are gather into what now days? Organization since from the time of Christ - it hasn't been a pretty sight. But has served a purpose as all of us being in a organization for a time.
Are people angry at God. Yes, they are because their faith has been place in doctrine and the acceptance of men more then the love of God. Again we were warned this would happen - a time of great testing for all those dwelling on the earth so much so people would blasphemy God.
Man nature is to worship anything but God in spirit and truth. The whole issues from the start was one of freedom to try our ways. When the Jew love false worship more then Gods they were lead into a captivity until they wanted to go up to the house of God alone. God allows people to be glutted with their own ways or doctrine. In fact, there will come a time that people will run away from those teaching because they will have so many mental plagues with them they will deny even being a teacher of them.
We know that all the works in the earth will become expose the problem is all religion think their group will not be apart of that exposing to the eyes of the world. God word tells us that everything will be wash away accept one stone that stone is Christ. We ex-JWs had another stone we were standing on or our faith would still be intact
Do organization form people into Christian by the spirit or through indoctrination? Some within those groups are lead by the spirit but they are almost always thrown out because there is war between flesh and spirit. This is the history of the church. In fact you may not be a true christian if you haven't been thrown out of a group or two or three. So your in good company.
The moutain being lift up in Isa. (as states at the start of this tread) is exactly how the society applied it in their older publication. I have learned that weeds always steal what is God's and claim it as their own. When God's temple was razed the weeds took the holy utensle as theirs. Later those holy things became a plague and they could not be done with them soon enough. The same will be true of all that proudly take God's word today a refining as if by fire awaits them. And look it has already started!
I have seen this happening in the organization of Jehovah Witness over the years they have stolen the gifts God has given them in spiritual men and woman thrown them outside until the light is gone inside. So if you eye is dark then your whole body dwells in darkness.
That mountain is already there and lift up read of it in Hebrews12 and we have approached that moutain by faith. Those that set themselve in God's Holy Temple and raise themselves up will be shaken. To distrust God and lose faith in Christ because of a abusive fleshly so called Mother - to think God will trick us is foolish. If there has been tricks its because of false doctrine or ideas we believe were from God . Yes, we worshipped an organization down below in the earth we did not go up to the oneway God set out for all that want to worship him. We walk by faith not sight. If you believe the Son of God was raise and you confess him then your on your way by God's spirit.
If God's word is not read from love from above it is a tool for smashing lives to piece
Be not mislead, my dear brothers, Every beneficent gift and every perfect present is form above; it descends from the Father of lights, with whom no variation occurs nor shadow cast by turning.
well, its good to be back, sorta back that is.
i wont go into my story or why im here.
if you dont know, you can read my past posts.
We are told to confess our sins openly and pray for one another and get healed. Then we are to call the elders to pray over the sick person and God would raise him up. Many brothers and sister have gone by the way and into some really sad and bad stuff because they live in fear of telling the elders.
When you associate with a group that every minor infraction is a big deal it makes it pretty clear if you have a real problem - what the out come will be. So JW's can't be healed they hid their problems and then get caught or worst they hurt other people. JW's must get professional help to be heal someone that will listen and not be shocked or judgmental. Some one that does not have an agenda to look good, that is, looking good is more important then a person spiritual life.
It is easy to think that JW's are good association and that because you associate with them some of that will rub off. The truth is people that hid every weakness/sin (for fear of being exposed and reproved public) our very sick and perhaps that why you have some of the problems you do. Spiritual uncleaness is a bigger disease and more contagious then physical uncleanness but most witeness have not idea what that really means.
God's holy spirit must work freely to heal and to protect his people would you say that most witness are really spiritual people or judgmental people? You see you can't have it both ways if your judgmental you can't also be spiritual..
To forgive requires a spiritual person, then to heal we must also love and realize we too have as many sins and let us beware that we don't fall as well because we lack mercy. Our father said the rocks would cry out if we did not. People you may consider unclean my be the very people God used to heal you. It may be the only prayers he will listen too because they are from the heart out of love and faith for you.
The issue now isn't about elders if they show mercy or minister too you. Because they can't they haven't been able since the 70's to be an elder requires comformative to a greater degree to the organsation and their rules. Those rules prohibit them from doing so. You must accept that fact and not waste engery or time hoping they will change. Your wife is also a product of the teaching and from personal experience they have only one button they can't forgive unconditionally because JW's don't allow for that kind of thought. You will have to pay off your sin inch at a time for the rest of your life. They will never forget they can't that how they protect themselve and thier self - righteousness.
But dear friend remember Christ will help you and his love will cover your sins. Yes, seek help prayerfully but be perpared that it will not come through the channel you think it should. So called worldly people or people from other faith will have more compassion on you. And perhaps like most of us you well not want to accept it - it appears to weak. But it is enough for a weak things of God is far greater then then the strong things of men.
i'm currently in the stage of mixed feelings.
i feel torn at times because of this.
i've built up courage to come to this website, and recently i've built up enough to take part in it.
You know, trust your gut that somethings is wrong in fact you have known that for a long time and have prayed about the matter over and over again. The truth is painful as you already know because you teach that to people you meet. You will find that many people you have condemned based on the society beliefs will prove to be better and stronger Christian then we every were. Shocking, humbling, painful. Yes, my friend there are many honest hearted people that gave their full loyalty too the organsation never thinking they were wrong thats why they zealousy tried to help others- some all their lives. There was no bad motive that is why you see on this site people bitter getting through the process they felt duped as you do now. How could I teach people these things? I thought we were the only ones that weren't duped. Who can I trust if I was so easy taken in. I thought I was a free thinker? If the witness aren't right then know one has the truth. You see if your honest and I believe you are because you wouldn't be searching; you won't spend every minute of your life wrangling in your heart and mind over what is right and what is wrong in every step of your daily active base on the teaching of JW's doctrine; you don't have a moment of real peace. You life is spent trying to please Jehovah God by your faithful acts. You believe despite stating otherwise that you must do something to enter into the kingdom. In fact to think otherwise is great fear- it can't be that easy or it from the devil. The truning point for many of us is when we read the bible that we so love claim to love and finally realize we don't forgive other people not of our faith - we have a moral right and must do according to what the society says. (simply put we have no responsiablity to forgive because the society says we don't) And yet Jesus was a Jew the Jews killed Christ and his last words were that his father forgive them (the Jews had thousand of years of religious teaching by the best not a 100years ). Shocking! Over and over again if we are God's children we must prove ourselves by forgiving our enemies. When I started that process a great release happen many of my long time health problems ended and our faithful God started showing me deeper and deeper truth. We are not to spend our lives looking at every letter of the law to protect ourselves from the evil of mens doctrines; who we love, who we hate, who we forgive, who we talk too, who we won't talk too and so on. God is not the author of fear love throws frear outside God is love not paranoid. We are taught God is a fair God of justice he is not partial perverting his law favoring one and not the other. If you apply your judgments that you daily apply to other faith's to Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine it will be the biggiest shock of your life. Another turning point. And still other turning point was when I learnt about the gift of "underserved kindness" please really think about those words of "kindness underserved". If you were told that your life depended on picking up 1800 pounds over your head or you would be killed - then you would be killed because it is not humanly possible. The law condemns us to death no one could fulfill the law on earth no one could pick up that much weight. Christ fulifilled that law for us he died picking up that weight for you and me. Then he gave us a gift that cannot be earned a free gift "underserved" while we were yet sinners. He remove the constant need of proving ourselves righteous through ones efforts. God no longer looked at us he looked at the blood of Christ he passed over our sins and acts in order to focus his eyes on the blood He can't look at us, we are sinners. Yes, the blood on the door post - the lamb blood; now on our hearts - you remember. It did not matter if you were a sinner or not or if you had 8o-years of faithful service on the Governing Body God looked at the blood on the door post and if it was there the angle of death passed over. All living at that time could act on faith and put the blood on the door it wasn't just Jews - now was it. He didn't tell them they had to live up to the comandments or listen to the elders or if they had a bad habit it had to be overcame before they were entitled to put the blood on the post. God is not partials anyone putting faith in His son blood can be saved. We as witness are taking God position by stating so much that we are more worthy because we do this and we do that and this person spend this much time doing this or that. And if you don't think so - just stop talking and listen to all the stuff going on in your own heart and mind. Christ went to who when he was on earth people in good standing with religion of his times or the people rejected by the religious teachers as sinners and condemned? Did Christ reject people or groups and their teachings? My friend lastly think about this point if doctrinal truth replaces underserved kindness than there is no underserve kindness the passover is meaningless - Christ is our passover. Moreover, the doctinal truth would have to be more or as perfect as the blood of Christ and it would have to be lived up to just as perfectly we would have to earn it by living up to that doctirne (there are no longer animail sacrfice to atone our sins). All would be condnmend no one could measure up (or they would have to become lying hypocrites) and that means if people base their lives on doctrinal truth that truth would have to be perfect from God and could never be changed. So for the sake of argument if you believe JW's have 90% of pure truth and another religion has only 75% and another only 60% and so on. What excuse do you make for yourself for only having 90%? Or do you also need daily forgiveness - the blood of Christ? Do you make allowance for that 90% to be changed as new light over and over again? But at the same time you harshly condnmend other religions to everlasting cutting off because they they have changed their doctrines or don't have it right? So your group determines that they are not entitled to the kindness underserved - they cannot be forgiven! You can drink 10% polution and be forgiven, but if another group drinks 25% they are cut off from the blood of Christ? And what if yours doctrine changes after you have condenmend the other group - who then needs forgiveness more? We are told that we enter into God's peace when we stop our own works, that is, stop trying to prove how much more deserving we are based on our works. He that loves little forgives little. And that is why God states stop judging because God has appointed a judge of all - His Son Christ Jesus. You cannot judge faith because it is and act trusting in the blood of Christ. You are taught to judge everyone faith by their actions. Those actions are base on what men think a person should do or not do according to their rules. That is why time and again God's prophet went to people other then the Jews to fine people that believe God and acted out faith doing the rignt thing and reproving God's people. Love = Trust! No group of people on this earth can determine what price God places on His Son's Blood. God say we are all sinners - not man, man never knew it until God showed him he was a sinner through putting a law that he could not live up to that condemned him. Some where humbly and condemned while others believed they where worthy and proud - go figure?) God ask us not to deprive anyone of the gift of underserved kindness through our judgments. No religion from the time of Christ has had it rights none, had purer doctrinal truth - not even the apostle because they were not being judge on that anymore. It was their faith that matter what it produced out of love for the gift of not having their sin held against them. They trusted that God cared so much that any that put faith in Christ would be brought to perfection in God's time and in his way - that none would perish it was not possible. They had no need for mans rules because Christ law of love was now written in their heart They knew God would teach and correct all matters that they have very little to do with producing a "child" of God because they were not the Mother or Father they were brothers and sisters. They trusted in the work of God Holy spirit and where spirit is there is freedom. Like young children they could forgive each other because they had been forgiven and no one was righteous accept Christ and by accepting His Blood they were accounted righteous. Now step up and take someones child mistreat that child abuse that child and see what man does? How small is the God you serve that has to control every idea and step or his children life. He ask you to trust him but he gives you know trust to make the right choice without being threaten over and over again? It is the gift that proves we are his people it is the ability to humble ourselve and see how great this free gift is and show how much we appreciate that gift by doing what Jesue did freely forgiving others. It is the stone that all christain faith is built on; He is remembering our wick deeds no more. You know, as we all do, their has never been more confusion on earth more sickness in mankind. We understand now more then every that so much of what we have been taught effects our lives. Do you think the God of Love doesn't understand this, do you think that he won't do more to help people if doctrinal truth means life? Even unrighteous men will do that much is your God less. Do you honestly believe or want to believe God's love is so small? Perhaps we are all in Babylon- can you prove we are not? Or perhaps God has a plan to save all through trails by organsation that mistreat his child so all will finally listen to the master voice instead of men? We must learn what simple childlike faith is trusting in the blood and not attaching all our evil thoughts to an act of love by God. You must become like young children - do we talk this way to young children and teach them all these evil thoughts of men. Your right you can't trust anyone in religion - where did you learn that? There is One Door One way to Salvation One Shepard One voice One person that can open and shut. No one ,that is, no one can snacth a sheep from his hand no one. What does it take for us to accept God's love and come to the only way he has made for salvation?
We know the law condemns us to death and sin is death but the love of Christ there is freedom and no condemnation.
