choosing life made a statement in another thread saying that just mentioning jesus too much will get you a concerned look from other jws.
i thought "oh how true that is!
" the thing that is intriguing to me is the fact jws are so quick to state that they are the closest thing to first century christianity.
This might be how Jesus felt about 'taking' glory from his Father -
John 17:24 - "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory,the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world."
And this is possibly what John thought of Jesus' God-given glory -
John 1:14 - The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Watkins
first of all, my heart aches for her and i am totally in love with her.
i helped her leave an abusive (15yr) marriage.
i am married but there is no affection, compassion, love, understanding....etc.
Everyone's given such excellent advice.Please listen!
Only one point I want to reinterate - the guilt this woman feels is such an intrinsic part of her involvement with this toxic religion that it's inseparable from her present emotional disposition. You don't want to subject yourself and your (poor) children to that - not knowingly at least - so now you DO know. Don't only take two steps back - turn and run the other direction!
I'm telling you friend, the JW religion can ruin any good woman - and she wants to go back, lead by her guilt. I'm sorry you feel so drawn to her, and I'm sure it feels like true love - but "it's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all." This is a lose/lose situation for you and your family. Better that you stay away and work on your marriage now, than look back some months or years down the road and wish you'd never heard of the WatchTower and it's psychosis-driven, mind-controling, guilt inducing, twisted, warped and absolutely poisonous theology. She has already demonstrated what a powerful influence it has on her - please take that as a huge HINT of what lies ahead if you proceed to listen with only your emotional heart. If she were to become involved with you on a personal level, she must try to recruit you and your children into 'The Truth', or she wouldn't be a good little(brain-washed) witness.
Listen to the sound reasonings of your mind - use your brain, man, and just do the right thing - you know what it is. It may be difficult, but you'll have no regrets over making what would be an 'improper', damaging and life-altering decision. No matter what it is you feel you want, forget yourself and do the right thing by your wife and children. If it doesn't work out, you'll at least know that you stood up for what's right and did everything possible within your power. Then, IF she leaves that religion - which is a psychological and emotional turmoil in itself - then you'll be free to move on with your next life phase. I just hope, for your sake and your kids' sake, that it doesn't involve the wacky watchtower... OK now, rant over...
May you find peace of mind.
Watkins
in this territory it will mean 'inviting' people to a religious convention about 200 miles away, about a religion that most already do not care about.
i believe this could be a 'tactical error' on the part of the gb, who seem mostly interesting in keeping the urgency level on high with this.
but as far as future converts are concerned, won't most people who were riding the fence as to classifying this group as a cult, go ahead and jump down on the affirmative side of the fence with this stupidity?
Oops from me too Jeff! Sorry - didn't see your post 'til after I'd posted. Thanks - and the link worked fine. I must be getting dull, of course I remember this. And I have to amend my comments that until THIS year, Jesus wasn't mentioned in the titles. Lol. However, we know it's still wts double-speak, because it's going to be all about how "following Christ" really means following the F&DS.
~Watkins~
in this territory it will mean 'inviting' people to a religious convention about 200 miles away, about a religion that most already do not care about.
i believe this could be a 'tactical error' on the part of the gb, who seem mostly interesting in keeping the urgency level on high with this.
but as far as future converts are concerned, won't most people who were riding the fence as to classifying this group as a cult, go ahead and jump down on the affirmative side of the fence with this stupidity?
....but... that thread is from 2006 and shows the theme tract for last year's convention. Was there a nrew tract for this year's d.c.?
A strange thing I noticed --- someone had listed the convention titles for the past 20 years or so - get this(I can hardly believe it) --- the words "Jehovah" and "Jesus Christ" are not listed in the titles of the(world-wide) conventions even once in all that time. As much as "Jehovah" is bandied about as a common word in the "pure language" of the wtbtsbs, that surprised me. They believe bearing that name is their Biblically proven heritage that sets them alone apart as "His Named People" and "The True Congregation of Jehovah God", etc. --- and there's not even one headliner for Him? That just strikes me as very very strange. (Also strange how they now Capitalise their Grand Titles for Themselves?) Granted, they don't mention Jesus all that much to start with... but still... I was looking for the title of one particular d.c. I went to in the 90's that I was so sure had Jesus' name in it - the tract for that one had his picture on it - but none of them bear his name. Weird, huh?
It's all part of the double-speak though. I really thought I'd learned a lot about Jesus through the WT, but in hindsight, there was only barely a mention of him, usually one scripture - then it was all turned around in WT-speak so what you learned was only what the WT wanted you to think Jesus really meant - not the true intent of what he actually meant. Seems Jesus always meant to say: be loyal "The Faithful and Discreet Slave Class" and you will be saved.
And the titles sound old-fashioned, like someone made up that list years and years ago. Reading them now, the words just sound so odd and out of sync with the language we know from the general literature of the past few decades. Hmmmm.
CoCo and OnTheWayOut summed it up nicely - many good comments about the tract-work in general. Still wondering if there was a similar 'campaign' and 'tract distribution' this year?
~Watkins~
I've wondered a lot about this too. I'd come to an earlier conclusion, from all the 'evidence' that the men at the top just have to know it's all lies, but still go along with the wts game plan. Why? - maybe because it's all they know and don't allow themselves to look further? That would mean that there are some pretty evil people in high places. I had a discussion about this on another forum with Don Cameron, author of 'Captives of a Concept', because I was incredulous that no one in the upper management had a clue... Don's a very nice guy btw - and he's convinced that in order to maintain a semblance of uniformity, they truly must be mislead by the concept that they are 'somebodies'/the F&DS. So he thinks they don't have a clue and are more or less brainwashed into really believing it lock, stock and barrel. I find that hard to believe, and yet, I don't want to say matter-of-factly that yes, thay are all evil men and they know they're doing evil... that doesn't seem right either. When I still thought the wtbts might be God's Org., and possibly might have some 'evil slaves' in their midst, I pointedly asked a CO about that - and he emphatically denied it, pointing to some revelation Rutherford had about the evil slave already being tossed out, and now it's a 100% clean organisation... um, right... so my question went unanswerable.
The people in the writing and art departments surely only write and draw what they're told, and I'm certain it all goes through a chain of approvals before any ink hits a page... But so much is obviously SO wrong - so who's to blame? I used to try to assign responsibility for this mess to someone, but I'm past caring now. Somebody somewhere knows... but it's not me. So my new conclusion is like so many others - I just don't know. It is what it is and I can't change it, so I left it behind and moved on. (but it still chases me around sometimes!)
~Watkins~
after awhile i feel like they're lost........i don't even know what ta talk about.
i'm an equal opportunity judgemental a-hole.
weird.
There was one girlfriend who was adamant about "saving me" and coercing me to return to the meetings. That didn't go so well, so she cut me loose. She thought I was a "danger to her faith" - not faith in God, but faith in the wtbts - and she was so right. She said if I'm not her 'spiritual friend' then she doesn't have time to be my friend at all. All the 'friends' at the hall were only 'friends' while at the hall - not in real life, and the hall was the only place our paths ever crossed. They must think I've got a problem with someone at the hall, as the elders have mentioned a couple of times that I need to 'forgive' - LOL - I have no problems at all with the people, all very nice people who are unfortunately still stuck in a cult. So my wtbts 'friends' have turned into collateral damage, sorry to say. But you must make some hard choices in life. It helps immensely that I live far out in the countryside and have managed to just slide off their radar. The lady who studied with me is punishing me(for not attending) by ignoring me - ouch! lol. No doubt, if I turned up at a meeting, I would be the recipient of many hugs, handshakes, a show of conditional love and lots of: "So glad to see you came BACK to Jehovah!". That ain't gonna happen 'cause I ain't goin' back to a KH, ever. They'll just have to love me - or fear me or hate me - from afar... or be so busy looking busy that I'm eventually forgotten altogether. Oh well.
There is one older couple that I dearly love that still send me requests to return to 'the ark', and WT's in the mail. I write to them and talk of everyday things, nothing spiritual. If we did talk about spiritual things it would rain on our parade, and they'd feel compelled to shun me as an 'apostate'... and we both know it, so we just don't ever go there...
I've never successfully helped any former 'friends' 'see the light' - it's very frustrating because the more evidence you present, the more sideways the conversation goes, and the more 'apostate' you sound in their ears and the less they're willing to listen. sigh. So far I've not gone too very far into the WT deception with anyone, but I'm still 'marked' by my absence and left alone. So I guess I went just far enough. Lol. No, really, I wish it were different, but it can't be, so I've accepted it as the consequences of getting involved in a cult. May we all find peace...
~Watkins~
at a recent public talk, the visiting brother, a retired co, was going on and on about how much we need the fds.
one point he used that really annoyed me was his reasoning that with the "dwindling" number of anointed and the increasing number of great crowd, that the org has made simpler wt articles so that the great crowd can understand better.
he said that wt articles in decades past were much more of a harder read for the gc.. so are prospective members of the "great crowd" supposed to be a bunch of numbskull, intellectually inferior idiots that can't walk and breathe at the same time without instruction from the fds?.
Maybe it's about reaching people whose first language is not English.(maybe) I've noticed that in recent years, the material is severely simplified - the 'Require' brochure read like a grade school workbook. Over-simplified to the point of embarrassment for all the 'stuff' left out. I really think it's done to reach the influx of Mexican-Americans into the US, as they're just beginning to learn English. But I could be wrong.... Or maybe it's because generations-past JW's weren't sent to college and just don't know how to read those big words??? Or maybe it's just re-hashing the same lame stuff - but they want it to look like new info so they have to put into different, simpler terms? Or maybe intelligent people just aren't falling for it anymore and they need to attract simple-minded people? Ay-yi-yi - who knows what lurks in the dark hearts of those at the top! Freddy Franz - hmmm - I think he made it up as he went along... as in one lie leads to another and to another...
~Watkins~
and, if so, why?.
"there is nothing that makes us feel so good as the idea that someone else is an evildoer.
" robert lynd (1879-1949).
I don't, quite the opposite. It makes me feel helplessly bad to know there are evildoers loose in the world. They mess everything up!
~Watkins~
loyal to christ and his faithful slave.
what interesting points: cross, christmas, pyramid.
q12, 13) what scriptural reasons are there for showing respect for the slave class?.
It is so subtle isn't it? You WILL obey - you MUST obey - you WILL be assimilated!
One comment for 'timmycat' who wrote - ...and yes he spoke about a faithful and descete slave class, that would give food at the proper time...
No where do I find a "class" mentioned. It's a wtbts invention. They invented it so they could require obedience to it under penalty of spiritual death.
Darn - how DO ya get that hi-lighter to turn off? lolol
~Watkins~
ps - thank you Blondie - you must be getting SO weary from this same ol' same ol' every week. Your efforts are VERY appreciated!
i was just reading some of the topics in the forum and i was just pondering on how many lies and devious half truths the wts.
put forth and marketed to .
the general public, it certainly is a huge pot of some of the biggest lies and deceiving statements that men have ever derived from the holiest book the bible.. .
Yeah, there are too many - but my personal thorn is the 2 class system of salvation. Totally unscriptural with links made of lies to the 144,000 in Revelation. So many scriptures state otherwise. There is only one hope issued from Heaven, one Lord, one spirit, one body of believers. There are only believers and unbelievers in the Bible.
Good ones so far...
~Watkins~
