This page is broken on my end - can't see all the replies, so tho't I'd post and see if it comes thru. I was hoping someone else had the experience and could tell me in detail what to do, or not do.
Watkins
JoinedPosts by Watkins
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need lawyerly advice about DA
by Watkins inhaven't been around for a while - nice to see so many still around, alive an' kickin'!
here's what's bothering me - i want to request the return of any records bearing my name at my former kh.
i want it to be like i was never even there, call me 'casper', lol.
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Please help re:objections to Thanksgiving?
by M.J. inwhat are the standard jw objections to thanksgiving?
do they claim there is any kind of a scriptural basis for condemning it?
i plan on asking someone about this and i'm curious what types of reasoning they might try to throw at me.
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Watkins
Wow, great first post SAHARA - you nailed it! Mental gymnastics - with practice you can justify or demonize anything. Isn't it called 'cognitive dissonance'?
MJ - first off, it's not a worldly holiday - it's only celebrated in the USA I think. If I remember right, it's heavily linked with politics in that whomever wrote a letter to President Lincoln(?) for the day to become a legal national holiday said something about being thankful for our political freedom. That religion can find something wrong with anything, I'm afraid, even thankful and joyous prayers to God! Also true about not saying 'amen' to a non-JW prayer - instilled fear around every corner! There ain't nothin' wrong with enjoying a family get-together and eating turkey on a particular day that everyone has off work, but don't over-do it because turkey makes you naturally sleepy and you'll miss the game.
*** sj p. 21 Holidays and Celebrations ***
National Holidays
Other holidays are somewhat different in nature. These are not so universally celebrated, but may be unique to a particular country. For example, there may be national days of thanksgiving. In some places there may also be a certain day set aside to memorialize a nation’s war dead, or a day to remember the birth of a country or certain prominent presidents, rulers or national heroes.
Jehovah’s Witnesses also respectfully refrain from participating in such national holidays. Though we respect the authorities in whatever country we may reside, for conscientious reasons we do not give them what we view as worshipful honors. We remain neutral toward all such celebrations. This is in keeping with Jesus’ words regarding his followers: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—John 17:16.
What kind of 'worshipful honors' are involved with Thanksgiving? That's just idiotic! They really have to grasp at straws and make things up to make Thanksgiving out to be a satanic 'holy day'... 'neutral? sheesh.
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need lawyerly advice about DA
by Watkins inhaven't been around for a while - nice to see so many still around, alive an' kickin'!
here's what's bothering me - i want to request the return of any records bearing my name at my former kh.
i want it to be like i was never even there, call me 'casper', lol.
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Watkins
Hi everybody! Haven't been around for a while - nice to see so many still around, alive an' kickin'!
Here's what's bothering me - I want to request the return of any records bearing my name at my former KH. I want it to be like I was never even there, call me 'Casper', lol. I've read that others have successfully done this, but being a lone woman and not really knowing what rights I have with those legalists - they could bulldoze me if I don't have all my ducks in a row. What's the procedure? Should I have a lawyer write an official letter for me - if so, what should I ask, or demand? If I know how to word the letter I probably wouldn't need a lawyer, but a lawyer would impress upon them the seriousness of the matter to me... It should accompany my letter of disassociation, I would think. Like a bad break-up - "We're done. I want all my stuff back."
I'm so hoping you all have some experiences to share and/or good advice!
Thanks - watkins
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Revelation isn't for the "Great Crowd" either?? sheesh!
by AuntBee ini just saw in the revelation book, that revelation is also not addressed directly to the great crowd.
holy cow!!
is there any scripture at all that the great crowd can claim as its very own??
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Watkins
"Is there any Scripture at all that the Great Crowd can claim as its very own??" Yeah, this one...Matthew 9:36 - On seeing the great crowd he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like other sheep without a shepherd.
Billy you're a hoot! But don't you know that inserted "other" words must be encapsulated in brackets, thus: [other]?
Listen people - if you believe right now, today, that God is real and Jesus Christ really is His Son - then you are believers and saved by faith. It all comes down to belief, faith. The 'Great Crowd' that the wtbts is suposedly gathering right now does not, in fact, even form until the tribulation - they are former unbelievers "of the nations" who repent and convert to faith after going through those bad days. So if we are believers today, and walking by faith in God and Christ, then we are the Christians to whom the Bible is speaking, and all the promises God made to the entire nation of Israel(not only the priesthood but ALL the people - it's still His will to work out, that all beleivers will form an entire nation of His kings and priests) belong to all who now know and love Him thru Christ. Further, the appointment of positions in God's household are not bequeathed until after one dies a faithful death. No one has Biblical authority to claim a special reward in this life. We have a hope and it's the same hope for everyone - the Kingdom. Where any of us will be in that Kingdom won't be decided, I believe, as long as we live/or until the ultimate fulfillment of the 'Great Tribulation'. Paul said something that sticks in my mind - 1 Thess. 4: 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
And this - 1 Corinthians 15: 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all bechanged, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
That seems to say it will happen all at once so why speculate it's happening over a 100+ yr. time period? The WT has tried to take over the priesthood that literally only belongs to Christ Jesus as he took on the role of High Priest and abolished the need for a formal proiesthood. All religions think they own it, literally. Aggressive men try to grab it away from the only one who has the authority to reward 'Kingdom seats' - and those I think literally went to his disciples anyway, lol. But what they've done is cordoned off the entire Kingdom for only a select few uber-Witnesses and all the rest of the believers(also card-carrying Witnesses) are considered to actually be outside the Kingdom. It's so obvious now that the "other sheep" Jesus spoke of in one verse in one gospel John 10:16 refers to the Gentiles - and he still says they will be "one flock with one shepherd", not 2 flocks in 2 separate locations! No where does the Bible say that Jesus will be the shepherd of some of the sheep who in turn shepherd another [other] great crowd of sheep.
There was a quote from an old WT mag I remember seeing, about bro. Russell guiding the org. from the heavens - and there was another little blurb not so long ago about that... and I thought wow, they have the resurrection already happening - invisibly - with the WT big-wigs already sitting as Jesus' counsel? Can't you imagine the heavenly BGB(Big GB) with Joe Rutherford still thinking he's in charge? Lol! That's not really funny, tho'.
Please AuntBee - research this yourself without the WT's help - read beginning with John's gospel from any [other](lol) translation than the NWT, then the rest of the gospels, then Paul's letters - listen to Jesus' voice and know he really is speaking to you, and me, and you and you and you... Really listen to Paul talk about Jesus' righteousness saving us - not our own; how we belong to Christ if his spirit is in us(and the word is "in"). Put bias aside and just listen to the words - then you come back and tell us, please, what you heard and what answer you've found to your own question - is the Bible/NT written to all Christians or only a select few? Then we'll compare notes!
watkins
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1John 5:20
by PSacramento inthis was brought up in the phillipians thread by johnathan dough (sp?
), he mentions how in 1john 5:20 jesus is caled god.. .
now, in the niv it goes like this:.
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Watkins
P-Sacramento - yes, I agree with your thoughts - "God" is the subject matter of those sentences, as Jesus gives us the understanding of the true God - "so that we may know him who is true. And we are in Him who is true-even in his son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and Eternal Life." So 'him who is true' is God, Jesus' Father - and the last part of vs 20 is re-emphasizing that statement - not, as some wish to read into it, that Jesus is the True God mentioned. I've tried hard to wrap my mind around the trinty as explained to me by sincere people - but I'm not getting anywhere since they try to make the scriptures they point to seem to say that Jesus is the Father God... it's one of those things, I think, that if you want to believe it you just believe it without much proof... I don't know...
cameo-d - Your statements made me scratch my head - where are you getting the idea that Jesus was not the Son of God or never called himself that? His Father even called him His Son - so what is your scriptural objection to that title?
Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."Luke 1:32
"He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;Luke 1:35
The angel answered and said to her, " The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 22:70
And they all said, "Are You the Son of God, then?" And He said to them, " Yes, I am."John 3:18
" He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:17-19 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter)John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."John 5:25
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.- those are just a few of many examples -
watkins
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Ephesians
by PSacramento inephesians is a letter in the nt, typically supposed to have ben authour by paul to the ephesians but not only the authorship is debated but so is the target audience, the ephesians part not being noted in the earliest available scriptures.. dated at around 8-100 ad and supposedly during paul's captivity, it does gives us some insight into (perhaps) 2nd generation chrisianity and paul's effect on them.. chapter 1 has some passages of note:.
grace is given freely (we are blessed with it) by jesus ( called beloved or the one he, god, loved) -1:6. in jesus we have redemption, forgiveness of sins according to god's grace - 1:7. god's plan is to bring everything ( heaven and earth) together under jesus, god has an (unknown to us) timeline for that.
- 1:10. we have been chosen ( are heirs), predestined according to god - 1:11 and, being the first to have hope in christ, might be for the praise of hid glory - 1:12.. 1:13 -"and you were also included when you heard the word of truth, the gospel and having believed, were marked by the holy spirit with a seal".
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Watkins
Yup, Ephesians is mandatory reading for those on the way out. It helps overturn the WT 2-class, 2-tier Christianity doctrines. At least it really helped me.
watkins
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MY APOLOGIES TO ALL
by Mary inlooking back over the last few weeks, i think i've been unnessarily rude to some posters and i just want to apologize to anyone who has been on the receiving end of my anger recently.. i believe that i'm so angry, dismayed, devastated and heartbroken over what's happening to my brother in law, that i've been taking it out on others and that's not right.
it makes absolutely no difference what i think of the wts as a whole, or whether or not americans have a universal healthcare system......none of that makes any difference whatsoever when someone you love and has been like your brother for 35 years is dying and there's not a fucking thing we can do about it.. my sister just called me and there's more bad news, and that's that his disease has now progressed into the acute myeloid leukemia which means he cannot start the therapy they were going to give him, as this is far more serious now.
they want to start chemo right away, but his blood counts aren't up high enough for him to survive.
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Watkins
I'm so sorry to hear it, Mary. If a rant is able to ease your pain even a little, then rant, dear girl. Due to the circumstances everyone can surely dig deeply and find understanding.
watkins
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APOSTATES LIE !!!
by elder-schmelder inall i have ever head my whole life at meetings is that apostates are full of lies.. about 1 year ago i started checking into the lie.
all i can find is quote's from watchtowers and other books.. .
my question is "what is the lie that apostates are telling?".
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Watkins
"Apostates lie" - that is a lie! The wtbts are revisionists of their own history, thus they are liars - and that's The Truth!
I think the biggest thing I had to get past, mentally, was that I was so gullible that I swallowed every lie as though it was golden truth from God Himself. I had to get over thinking I was too smart to be lied to, 'cause I sure was lied to, big time, over and over. A humbling experience that I evidently needed... I'm sooo over myself now, lol.
watkins
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How many here actually still believe that there is a God??
by annalice inafter being gone from the jw's for many years now , and having done extensive research on the history of god and the belief in him , i can't seem to find any logical way to have a belief in an invisble being up there ruling over us.
how many here still believe?
how many don't?.
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Watkins
Wow - I've enjoyed reading all your answers - pro and con. One thing I'd like to say to the one(don't remember who) that said something about evolution - to believe in evolution doesn't mean you can't believe in God - only fundy Christians believe that way. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle and I really think we can't know the full story right now. The bad stuff that goes on in our world - who did it? Did God do it to us, or has mankind done it to themselves and over the millenia are we reaping the results? I believe the latter.
One's belief doesn't harm another's unbelief and vise-versa. Can I prove that there IS a God? If you don't accept my proof as valid, then no, I can't. But can you, in turn, prove that there is NO God? Same difference - man, it's a draw! I'd rather believe and later find out I'm wrong than curse a God I don't believe exists and later find out I'm wrong. (But of course I believe I'm not wrong to be a believer, even though I don't believe what I was taught about God as a Witness - in the JW-style God I'm a non-believer, lol) ((I wondered how many times I could get "believe" in there - oh, there's one more!))
watkins
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How many here actually still believe that there is a God??
by annalice inafter being gone from the jw's for many years now , and having done extensive research on the history of god and the belief in him , i can't seem to find any logical way to have a belief in an invisble being up there ruling over us.
how many here still believe?
how many don't?.
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Watkins
I forgot to add - I don't believe in the blood-thirsty Jehovah God of the Witnesses Who would kill off all non-Witnesses. That's not the loving God I've come to know through Jesus. No one is Bible history ever pronounced His name "Jehovah" anyway - the "J" is a relatively modern invention.
watkins
sacolton - Yes! Babies and sweet children - how wonderfully they're made! By chance? I don't think so...