Posts by Watkins

23

Brother "Prince" not happy with "Black eyed peas" swearing at his house! Praise JAH!!

by Witness 007 in

so i heard an interview with the "black eyed peas" who mention they jammed with prince at his home recently, only to have one excited member yell to prince....."your the sh#t man!

" well how would a witness react to that????

a staff member later told them prince did not like swearing in his house.

Watkins

What really is "swearing"? Is all profanity considered 'swearing'? I guess a person can't say shit around Prince anymore, lol.

58

March 15, 2010 Watchtower -- "One Flock, One Shepherd"

by sd-7 in

march 15, 2010 watchtower, p. 27, par.

16 ("one flock, one shepherd"):.

"paul also helps us to understand that those with an earthly hope do not partake of the memorial emblems.

Hey Mary! For me, this was one of those wt things I had to scrap completely and start from scratch! Now it seems so clear - duh - we were completely blinded by the wt's so-called 'authority'. I think this article's just another in the long line of articles flexing their (invisible)authority - notice these words - "If, though, those who will live forever on earth were entitled to partake of the emblems..." Entitlement? Deservedness? See how they twist it to make the b&s feel guilty to question what's actually happening to them when they come to Christ and receive the holy spirit just as Jesus promised. They're so confused because by WT doctrine this means they're heaven-bound! They don't yet realize that this(some call it 'being born again' or 'born from above') is what's supposed to happen to everyone following Christ and loving God. There's one faith, one hope. There's no Biblical indication that any of us know where we're to be or even what we're to be until our resurrection. They've danced around that for a long time, recently admitting all believers share God's spirit "without measure"... but it's still in the minds of JWs that there are huge spiritual differences between their 'anointed' class and the rest. Language used in past articles put the r&f in their lowly place, being accused of 'grasping' at things not belonging to them; thinking 'something special' of themselves - when this is exactly how belief in Jesus is supposed to work! It does make us special and set apart from the world - just like all Christians are supposed to feel! What it's not supposed to do is make one Christian more 'special' than another - we're all called and we all fall short - Christ Jesus is what unites us, not doctrine!

The whole 2-tiered construct is wrong. Yes, the 2 flocks that Jesus already made into the one - was done with his death and resurrection. The 'little flock' was made up of his Jewish brethren and the 'other sheep' were the Gentiles or 'nations'. One main point is that they are no longer separate 'flocks' - they have already been made one, with one shepherd Christ Jesus.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/134820/2400646/post.ashx#2400646

The link above shows their explanation of Jesus coming 6 times! Really, they have no clue about the presence of Christ, they just like to go on and on about how they're the only ones who know what a Greek word means - and they even screwed that up! I think about the many times Jesus said to 'be on the watch' and to be 'alert and waiting'... he didn't say

[quote]Curse the WT to time indefinite for its blasphemous teaching that has divided those seeking the Savior! Amen. Sylvia[/quote]

They've done it to themselves. And I agree - it's the most divisive and harmful teaching - it actually convinces the b&s to actively reject the symbols of Christ's body...

I could rant for a solid month about this...

watkins

17

Ephesians

by PSacramento in

ephesians is a letter in the nt, typically supposed to have ben authour by paul to the ephesians but not only the authorship is debated but so is the target audience, the ephesians part not being noted in the earliest available scriptures.. dated at around 8-100 ad and supposedly during paul's captivity, it does gives us some insight into (perhaps) 2nd generation chrisianity and paul's effect on them.. chapter 1 has some passages of note:.

grace is given freely (we are blessed with it) by jesus ( called beloved or the one he, god, loved) -1:6. in jesus we have redemption, forgiveness of sins according to god's grace - 1:7. god's plan is to bring everything ( heaven and earth) together under jesus, god has an (unknown to us) timeline for that.

- 1:10. we have been chosen ( are heirs), predestined according to god - 1:11 and, being the first to have hope in christ, might be for the praise of hid glory - 1:12.. 1:13 -"and you were also included when you heard the word of truth, the gospel and having believed, were marked by the holy spirit with a seal".

Watkins

So... what do you guys think about the authenticity issues? Do the facts void the spirit of the words written? Some of the writings attributed to Paul have made me scratch my head... but my heart, mind and spirit respond to a great deal of them too --- whoever wrote them, lol. I've reasoned that if I were to write letters in the same manner as Paul, they too would resemble each other to a degree, but would vary wildly because of the interests or specific intimate matters the recipient and I shared. I feel Paul(or whoever) did this, while knowing congregations were sharing / copying his letters to their specific group, and so he elaborated on different points to different degrees... and he dictated some of them...

Hmmm. well, what would be a dangerous teaching from the letters in question? Is there something terribly wrong - why is authorship in question - what's wrong? (not sure what you mean, Narkissos, about 'gnostic-friendly Colossians' vs. the 'pastorals' --- I'm going to have to look into that!)

thanks for your time, you guys - you're great!

17

WT 11/1/2009 Public Edition: Do you need to learn Hebrew or Greek?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

this is not a study article but i thought it was interesting that the wt felt the need to write an article about whether it was worth learning either hebrew or greek to study the bible.. here are some select quotes from this article.... .

the majority of people who read the bible today do not understand hebrew or greek.

rather, they need to use a translation of the bible in their own language.

Watkins

They never should've published their Kingdom Interlinear NT Bible then - it shows up their subtle and not-so-subtle twists. I'm glad I had one - it helped me see just how twisted their exegesis had become.

28

The annointed/elect AND holy spirit

by EndofMysteries in

later i can post tons of scriptures to reference, but no point if nobody has run into this.

have you seen what appears to be 2 different groups of annointed?

perhaps one selected/predestined by jehovah and another not predestined by invited by jesus?

Watkins

Later I can post tons of scriptures to reference, but no point if nobody has run into this. Have you seen what appears to be 2 different groups of annointed? Perhaps one selected/predestined by Jehovah and another not predestined by invited by Jesus? Also, have you seen anything speaking about one having Jehovahs spirit, Jesus spirit and both? What is the difference or how would one know which one has or if both?
IMHO the holy spirit is the same spirit of God and of Christ. I would like to see your "tons of scriptures to reference" "what appears to be 2 different groups of anointed". What I've found is that there is one group of 'anointed' and they are all called 'Christians'. I don't believe one can call Christ Jesus their Lord without affirmation of the holy spirit. There is no Biblical reference to there being a group of 'non-anointed' followers of the 'anointed' group. As in the WT study yesterday - the wtbts still is trying to separate Jesus' sheep into groups of their indoctrination - not what the Bible says by any means. I don't believe in 'predestination' per say, but believe it was God's purpose(will, plan) that his Son would have followers that he would lead to the Father. So He did 'predestine' that 'Christians' would form a following after His Son, but the individuals are not 'hand-picked' by Him - He still allows us the freedom of our own freewill to choose.

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

Watkins

When we come out of the WT mindset it seems, at first, that we have limited choices - WT dogma or another church's dogma. How about we just dispense with ALL of it and the fear(of not getting it 'right') that goes with it?! Forget what the WT says - they're mostly wrong about most topics, lol. But don't feel like you need to buy right into another set of dogmatic doctrines, either. They are the opposite poles of extremism, imho. The real truth might be found somewhere in between, or maybe even totally outside their perfected 'arguements'. So many words and all the trouble to dissect them - and yet we will probably still end up choosing new sides and castigating the other side from whence we came - ironic, huh?

God's Holy Spirit IS God - from Him and of Him - if it was not something wholly owned by Him it would have a separate name as 'Immanuel' / 'Yeshua' did. The problem with the trinitarian view is that they take the spirit and separate it from it's Owner and make it into an 'equal' 'person'. It can be called 'it' or personalized as 'he' - because it IS God and no one other than God. I can't see that God's spirit is separate from Him in any instance. If you lie to 'God's spirit' then you are lying to God Himself! There is no separate entity - God's spirit is holy because it's HIS spirit and He is holy - God is a spirit(as Yeshua said).

Divine things just don't boil down to formulas of understanding. We know our knowledge is limited, don't we? I wish my brain worked to even a tenth of it's capacity! We argue over these words as if we really do 'know it all' - even when we KNOW we don't... Maybe it comes down to: To stand on God's side even without knowing all the minute particles of detail - that's what takes real faith, dontcha think? God never has based His requirements so much on knowledge as on love and faith.

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

Watkins

He had 'permission' -

John 10: 17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."

John 17

The High Priestly Prayer

1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, 2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. 3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

24

Jesus' Role as Mediator

by sd-7 in

i just had a thought--never a good sign, right, ladies?--about jesus' role as mediator, as defined by the watchtower society.

i personally experienced a particularly interesting moment with my mother back when i first started to lose faith in the borg.

(i'm actually going to use that term, borg, now because "organization" makes me cringe every time i hear it, even when it's used at work.

Watkins

Hi everyone! Does anyone know, or have, the last past study WT where the 'Jesus is Mediator only for the 144,000' is taught? Just tonite - surprise visit from an elder and wife - flat out told him I differ with the 'society's teachings' most in this one point, that the New Covenant covers all believers the same as the Old covered all Israelites plus foreigners who worshipped their God - not just the priesthood and Levites. Jesus is our high priest now and all believers are IN him. He must be our mediator or we have none and are in no 'relationship' with God at all because it's Him that said we must "kiss the Son lest the Father be incensed"... right? He said "oh yes, Jesus IS our Mediator or we couldn't pray in his name" - and there is the deception they teach and yet they're absolutely blind to it - as we all once were - YIKES! I don't know if they'll be back - probably will be 'reported' as an 'apostate'.... whatever... been gone for about 7 yrs now so they're catching on, lol. But if they do come back I'd like to at least refer him to the magazine with that article he can read for himself. It really is all tied up with the heaven/earth thing too - they will not accknowledge the 'great crowd' of John's vision is also in heaven, white robes, in front of the throne WITH the 144,000 - or that those chosen from the 12 tribes are chosen after remaining faithful to DEATH. And the 'little flock/other sheep' non-existant link to Rev., man o man. I asked him if he'd considered that the other sheep Jesus referred to was Gentiles, as Paul propounds quite a convincing argument for Gentiles also being God's people, but not one word about a 'little flock' to whom all[others] are to follow in place of Christ. He said no, he'd never considered that - I don't think he will for long. Also - when Jesus mentioned those 'other sheep' he said he would make them into "one flock with one shepherd" - he doesn't need anyone's help, he calls and gathers the sheep himself! He'd just got through telling me the org. is gathering "Jehovah's sheep".

Bro. Elder said he disagrees with my view. lol. Maybe I'm one of JESUS' sheep! Well, it took me a couple of years to completely untangle this one. WT is so insiduous, like a strangling cancer sinking long tentacles into soft, yielding mutton. A laborous and careful excisison must be endured, without anesthetic. Just a bitty scar left, lol. But now it's a joy and relief to be WTCancer free - a survivor!

The releasing of this religion's prisoners starts with questions like these. So if someone could point me to the right articles I'd be much obliged - thanks!

8

Rutherford and bible students the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation 11 ??

by digderidoo in

does anybody know what the current line of thinking is on this?.

i wondered what the revelation, grand climax book says?.

paul.

Watkins

Hi VE -

The partial-preteristic view is an interesting commentary, which leaves some parts for a future fulfillment. I can definitely see the link to the Roman empire in the symbolism...

The full-preteristic view, I think, is that all of Revelation was fulfilled in the first century, is that right? How does that work now that we're 2,000 years hence and the 'world' is still spinning on wickedness and injustice? Is it all seen as symbolic? Is the Kingdom of God viewed as symbolic?

8

Rutherford and bible students the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation 11 ??

by digderidoo in

does anybody know what the current line of thinking is on this?.

i wondered what the revelation, grand climax book says?.

paul.

Watkins

Ok, well.... that was just too too much wt information, lol! I've heard so many opinions of interpreting the two witnesses. one thought that made sense to me was that it's not literally 2 people, but perhaps 2 groups, Jewish and Gentile believers. Of those 2 groups Jesus said he would make the one flock of believers. And it makes sense too of the beast 'making war' with them - would a powerful beast need to wage actual war on only 2 measley souls? Anyway, I thought it was worth consideration but some of the symbolism in Revelation is way beyond my grasp right now. I dunno...Really, who knows? This may be one of those things where as we see it happen we'll know - ahha! - or realize immediately after the fact. imho it's a waste of time trying to figure out who it will be, prognosticating and guesstimating. There are a few guys around the boards who think they are one of those 2 witnesses.