Posts by kurtbethel

22

How did the JW come up with the idea that human has no soul or spirit??

by FingersCrossed in

really appreaciate it if someone can tell me :).

kurtbethel

When you make up a doctrine without consideration of the whole context then you often create new problems.

If your spirit is merely a life force like electricity, then when you die there is no part of you that survives death. You simply no longer exist. That is okay, as atheists and materialists that have no spiritual beliefs think this way. The problem comes when a copy is made of your body and those stored memories are implanted in that copy. Since you ceased your existence, it would not be you as there is nothing to carry the continuity of your being. It could be a perfect copy right down to the cellular level, complete with replicated synapses and memory, to the point that it thought it was you because of having your memories, but it would not be you.

It would be just like making a backup of your PC and then running the PC through a grinder, then copying the data to a new PC. You can run all your stuff just like it was before, but it is not the same PC.

This has other implications. Once you are on to the fact that you will be blotted out of existence forever, you might decide to live for this life. After all, it won't be you getting resurrected. If your duplicate in the next life gets punished for your misdeeds, or not resurrected, well too bad. It's not your problem.

Also, the whole deal about Michael's life force going into Jesus, and then going back into Michael, what big deal is that? It carries no personality traits. It is like running your PC off the wall socket, and then switching to an inverter in your car.

This doctrine is just plain goofy. It makes atheism look more sensible.

13

Gasp! Internet In The Kingdom Hall?

by metatron in

jw
friends

i hear they may have wifi in some halls ..... and then we have cell phones, don't we?.

ever heard of a witness teenager who can blind text with the phone in his pocket?

you could download porn while the brother on stage condemns it.

kurtbethel

I'm thinking live stream.

I once asked a JW that if the talks at the Kingdom Hall were so important, why didn't they stream them so people everywhere could hear them.

His answer: Not everyone has the internet.

WTF?!?

43

Interesting Comment From an Active Elder

by DarioKehl in

i was recently speaking to an elder "off the record" while helping him do some house repairs.

i have a comfortable enough relationship to speak openly with him about things, but am careful to disclose the extent of my disbelief in wt doctrine.

anyway, this guy wouldn't last a day in the mafia because he can't keep anything confidential.

kurtbethel

I was dumbfounded for 2 reasons. First, how could he be so naiive about all the major changes I'd mentioned that have happened since 2007? Second, how could he not have noticed the massive increase in partakers? This man is obviously under heavy, heavy indoctrination/mind control.

He was suffering from that common malady found in Kingdom Halls, which I call dubnesia. He sits in meetings and is in a trance, so afterword he has no idea what he actually heard. He only knows that he feels good about hearing it and that it was somehow wonderful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpHPnPkM_Tk

6

Conversation Baiting

by irondork in

jw
friends

i assume most of us here participate in other discussion forums of various genres.

on those forums, where there may be jw participants, what would be some thread topic ideas for baiting them into a conversation, for the purpose of asking them questions that might help wake them up?.

i realize that's a pretty broad question.

kurtbethel

I have noticed that Jehovah's witnesses don't answer questions. What they do is start talking after a question is asked, and they parrot back a rehearsed script that they think is an answer to the question, with the often hilarious result of a long rambling non answer. I used to ask them questions that were not in their playbook, and watch them shuffling through the Reasoning book looking for the response.

5

RUSSIAN METEOR! Did God make meteoroids?

by Bloody Hotdogs! in

did jehovah set meteoroids in motion billions of years ago when he created the solar system, or has satan been manufacturing them since his fall?

after all, it seems rather imperfect of god to have created such flyee, crashy, smashy, destroyee things.

kurtbethel

Go to this site, study it, then come bad and tell us the answer.

http://www.badastronomy.com/index.html

75

Misquotes, Lies and deception in Watchtower Publications

by jwfacts in

i have just finished an article misquotes, deception and lies and would like your comments, proof reading, and any other examples that you think are important to add.

most of these already appear on jwfacts.com within specific articles, but it is more powerful seeing them included together.

there have also been a number of requests over the years for such a collection.

kurtbethel

That's really good stuff.

Someone might dismiss a lot of that as old light, so I am going to suggest a couple current teachings that are downright deceptive.

The first one is in the Bible Teach book, on page 183 it says your baptism is a dedication to Jehovah God, and not to "a work, a cause, other humans or an organization". Compare that to the second baptism question and take your pick of the many recent rants about obeying the slave.

The other item would be to pull a quote about how no collection is ever taken, and compare to the November Watchtower begfest article asking you for your stocks, jewelry and estate, and the charitable planning brochure.

Both of these items are current teachings that they bait and switch you with.

6

EX- San Diego mayor gambled away One BILLION remorseful.

by jam in

maureen o connor was the first female mayor of.

san diego, but when she left public life she spent.

countless hours seated in front of video-poker machine.. miss o connor skimmed more than 2 million from a charity.

kurtbethel

She's a politician, she should put a better spin on it than the brain tumor gambit, or the "grief gambling" dodge. How about this: she was contributing to the local economy of county reservations. It sounds much better.

I have known gamblers, and they must have whack brain chemistry. They get jonesing for a fix. They remind me of meth addicts. You have to watch them or they will steal from you to get a fix. No respect at all.

11

Double Standard re: Baptism

by lostinnj83 in

i was speaking to my mother earlier this week, and she was mentioning about someone in her hall that was in the hospital.

this person was never mentally "present" even prior to getting baptized.

my mom said out of the blue "why would they allow someone who is mentally incoherent to make such a serious commitment as baptism?".

kurtbethel

There is more than a double standard. There is at least a triple standard.

I was discussing baptism with my JW and I asked that if someone hap been baptised in a Christian church, would their baptism be recognized at the Kingdom hall as valid.

No, they would have to get baptized there too.

Why not?

The Christian church is part of babylon the great so baptism there is not valid.

Oh, okay. Well then if they were married by babylon the great, and babylon the great does not do valid ordinances that God recognizes, then they must get married again when they become a JW, right?

Well no, they don't.

But you told me that they must get baptised because God doesn't recognize when babylon the great does religious ordinances, so logically they would not be able to perform a legitimate wedding, which is ordained by God, and the couple would be living in sin. So why don't they have to get married when they become a witness, but they must become baptised? Don't you see the inconsistency of this?

Blah blah blah [irrational lengthy babbling non answer]

[Me thinking] This is irrational corrupt craziness and I really don't want to associate with these people as it would be corrosive to my sanity.

18

Cost of living going up.

by punkofnice in

here in the uk the cost of living is going up far beyond wage rises.

the cost of travelling is shooting up each time i look at a petrol pump!

water rates are rising.

kurtbethel

Yeah, and Argentina trying to get their dirty hands on foreign soil.

Our hats are off to the planet's professionals in that area of expertise.

Hoo boy, play nice you guys.

Prices are going up nearly everywhere. Recently the bottles of vitamin water at Costco were Obamasized from 20 oz to 5 oz, but the price is the same. It is not the case that energy, food and resources are worth more than they were a year ago. The fact is that the dollar, peso and pound are worth less because more of them were created from nothing without an increase in value of their backing. It is a sneaky way that governments steal from you wholesale without overtly raising taxes.

160

I've Come To Realize That "Facts" Don't Mean Much If A Person Refuses To Accept Them

by minimus in

jw
friends

...and that applies to religion as well as politics.. if someone simply believes such and such is true, it doesn't really matter whether you "prove" it or not.

people will believe what they want to believe..

kurtbethel

Facts are overrated, and can actually get in the way of running a good con on people.