Posts by still

5

Cross prophecied in OT? The altar?

by still_in74 in

we have all read the arguments - was it a cross or a stake?

the jw's teach it was a stake or pale, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cross_or_stake_as_gibbet_on_which_jesus_died> however if you really examine the wts teaching and logic behind this position you discover that it is not 'exact'.

rather, it becomes an assumption, a best guess.

still_in74

OMG I am dying inside~! It wouldnt post half of my text!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry for redoing this post and correcting formatting a thousand times. I finally got all my info to post but not with all the formatting I had originally but I am afraid to touch it now for fear I will lose it agian! I hope you enjoy this info as much as I have....

5

Cross prophecied in OT? The altar?

by still_in74 in

we have all read the arguments - was it a cross or a stake?

the jw's teach it was a stake or pale, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cross_or_stake_as_gibbet_on_which_jesus_died> however if you really examine the wts teaching and logic behind this position you discover that it is not 'exact'.

rather, it becomes an assumption, a best guess.

still_in74

we have all read the arguments - was it a cross or a stake?
The JW's teach it was a stake or pale, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_or_stake_as_gibbet_on_which_Jesus_died> however if you really examine the WTS teaching and logic behind this position you discover that it is not 'exact'. Rather, it becomes an assumption, a best guess. This is because the word "Stauros" from which 'stake' is derived (4th&5tBCE Greek), also meant 'cross' (at time of Christ). Even the WTS cannot deny this and use statements such as this one:

***g749/22p.28DidJesusDieonaCross?***So, the evidence indicates that Jesus did not die on the traditional cross

So why inisist it is a stake when you cant definitively prove it? Does it even matter? I mean really people, what changes? Even some JW's make this statement when debating cross vs stake. It is of no consequence becuase it was merely a murder weapon.
Well why do JW's like to demonize the cross and teach the stake?
EASY - to distance themselves from the christianity. They support this by dwelling on the pre-christian pagan use of the cross - that this in some way would mean a cross could/would not have been used. Well, considering the Romans were pagans, it would seem to make sense they would use a pagan symbol, or perhaps many pagan symbols in their society.

Does it matter? Well I came across an audio clip by Jay Hess which opened my eyes about this which I had never considered. http://www.jwinfoline.com/audio/jay_hess.m3u

(Ezekiel 43:18) And he proceeded to say to me: "Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, 'These are the statutes of the altar on the day of its being made, in order to offer upon it whole burnt offerings and to sprinkle upon it blood.'
(Ezekiel 45:19) And the priest must take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it upon the doorpost of the House and upon thefour corners of the surrounding ledge belonging to the altar and upon the doorpost of the gate of the inner courtyard.
*** w76 4/15 p. 240 par. 5 Why We Need the Kingdom of Jesus Christ ***
5 In offering himself up as a sacrificial Lamb, Jesus Christ served as God's High Priest who was foreshadowed by Israel's first high priest, namely, Aaron of the tribe of Levi. All the further sacrificial high priests of ancient Israel descended from this Aaron the brother of Moses. That is another reason why all mankind needs Jesus Christ, for him to serve as the antitype of Israel's high priests in taking the blood of the sacrifices into the Most Holy of the temple on the annual Day of Atonement, YomKippur.

Its amazing how the OT passover parallels the NT passover and sacrifice of jesus.

the lamb was sacrificed on passover - Jesus was sacrificed on passoever
lamb was taken outside the ciy - jesus was taken outside the city
no bones broken on lamb - no bones broken on Jesus
Lambs blood used to cleanse the alter - Jesus blood cleansed the altar?In preparation for the passover the altar had to be cleansed:
(Ezekiel 43:20-22) ...And you must take some of its blood and put [it] upon its four horns and upon the four corners of the surrounding ledge and upon the border round about and purify it from sin and make atonement for it. 21 And you must take the young bull, the sin offering, and one must burn it in the appointed place of the House, outside the sanctuary. 22 And on the second day you will bring near a buck of the goats, a sound one, as a sin offering; and they must purify the altar from sin the same as they purified [it] from sin with the young bull.'

Where was Jesus' altar? Did he have one? Upon what was Jesus sacrificied? The Highpriest placed the lamb on the altar and placed its blood upon the four corners of the alter to cleanse it. Jesus represented the Highpriest and the lamb( w76 4/15 p. 240 par - above)
There had to be blood spilled. The lamb cleansed the altar and made atonement by way of itsblood. But there was more! The blood had to be placed upon the 4 corners of the altar to accomplish this.

One is forced to ask the question -if the Sacrificial Lamb upon its altar symbolized jesus, and so much attention was paid to the altar upon which the Lamb was sacrificed to the point that its inlcusion in the sacrifice was necessary for atonement, then in what way was Jesus blood placed upon His altars 4 corners? And what did that accomplish?

Where did Jesus bleed? Mounted to a cross he would have had peirced hands and feet - splattering blood on "3 corners" - BUT - with the placement of the crown of thorns (!) we now have blood on all 4 corners of the cross!
For a torture stake their is simply no connection between it and its anticedant.

If Stuaros can mean both "stake" and "cross", and cross was used in Greek at the time of Christ even secularly, and Romans were pagan thus justifying the use of a Pagan symbol, and the cross matches seemlessly the type/antitype relationship between the altar and the cross - THEN HOW CAN ONE CLAIM THAT "STAKE" IS A MORE ACCURATE GUESS THAN CROSS???!!!???!!

Oh BTW - FYI - the altar was "unclean". The unclean "pagan" cross would have been cleansed by that sacrifice in the same way the altar had to be cleansed by the sacrifice. For the WTS to point to the "unclean" pagan use of the cross does not discredit its propriety, but only serves to enhance it!!

Is the cross an unclean pagan symbol? ANSWER: not any more! It was the altar of Christ - cleansed by his sacrifice.

22

ANYONE actually understand the 'Revelation Book'? ?

by Latte in

i'm interested to know how people felt about studying this book.

i know that they are studying it at the moment in the uk.. anyone feel that the book actually made any sense....what with all the symbolic stuff..etc..etc.

as a child they were studying the 'babylon' book.

still_in74

Leolaia is spot on. The Rev Climax book is pure bollocks

I have posted a couple topics on various chapters as we studied this last. It takes exceedingly low levels of scrutiny to quickly see how sad and pathetic the author(s) of this atrocity really are.

9

Get busy living! - The resolve of an ex-Jehovah's Witness

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i have heard this expression a few times recently.. and isn't is so true?.

i am fairly young.

i have good health.

still_in74

or get busy dying..........

52

COMMENTS YOU WILL NOT HEAR AT THE WT STUDY: Help Them Return Without Delay!

by Mary in

how do you read?

q 7. what can we encourage those who have strayed from the flock to do?.

106:13) it may be helpful to remind an inactive one that "the faithful and discreet slave" is dispensing excellent spiritual food.

still_in74

I can already sense my "encouragement" coming. I have seen some initiative taken already.

Its always the same, they invite you over, feed you, and then on their couch and in their home they ask you if you would like to "work together" in service this Saturday.

I cant wait........

9

New & Improved Apostate Dictionary

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

here's proof how hilarious you guys are.. lots of new stuff added.

enjoy..

still_in74

good job rebel! wow that is a lot of "classes".... almost looks a bit 'strange' when you bunch them all together like that!

108

BIG NEWS! Leader of German Watchtower History Archives Resignes and Leaves Branch Office!

by GermanXJW in

johannes wrobel, the founder of the watchtower history archives in germany, responsible for the stand firm-video and the stand-firm-exhibitions resigned in november 2008 and left the german branch office.

he was also the responsible person for many of the wt sponsored websites on jw in the 'third reich'!.

there are no further details known yet but this could be big news!.

still_in74

JW Think: Satan is really working hard in these last days

well just think, if Satan can convince angels to leave Jehovah, and even high-level bethelites, think how hard we have to resist Satan! We can never let our gaurd down!
Why, Satans lies are sooo much more powerful than Jehovahs truth that even only a few minutes of "apostate lies" can unravel 50 years of truth!!! Boy, we really need to hide inside the KH and only read the Watchtower! After all, even a snippet of a newspaper article written by an anonymous writer can destroy everything that the soveriegn lord of the universe has taought for thousands of years!

15

Disgusted by Dec 15-21 WT Study

by still_in74 in

for those that read the dec 15-21 study article "jehovahs answer to a heartfelt prayer" in the oct15-08 study edition perhaps you know what i mean.. paragraph 11 - .

throughout the time of the end satan has incited his earthly agents to oppose the anointed remnant and their other sheep companions.

that happened in western europe under the nazis and in eastern europe under the communist government of the soviet union.

still_in74

finally had to rip off the bandaid. I told her I just don't believe in any of it anymore.

I wish I could muster up the boldness to do that. I have so much at stake - I was seconds away from doing it the other day - miliseconds! And I chickened out. My friends, my family, my wife that I love more than anything.... I would lose it all....

9

Dec 8-14 WT Study Article - GB speaks for Jehovah - literally!

by still_in74 in

so who here sat through the dec 8-14 wt study and didnt want to stand up and shout "what the f--k is wrong with you people?????".

paragraph 7. at some point, baruch, who may have belonged to a prominent family, began to seek great things for himself.

perhaps he began to nurture personal ambitions or a desire for material prosperity.

still_in74

so who here sat through the Dec 8-14 WT Study and didnt want to stand up and shout "WHAT THE F--K IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?????"

Paragraph 7

At some point, Baruch, who may have belonged to a prominent family, began to seek “great things” for himself. Perhaps he began to nurture personal ambitions or a desire for material prosperity. Whatever the case, Jehovah saw that this dangerous thinking was developing in Baruchs heart. Speaking through Jeremiah, Jehovah promptly addressed the matter, saying to Baruch... (Jer. 45:1-5)

wow, Baruch MAY have done a lot of things, he MAY have nurtured personal ambitions (education) he MAY have desired material prosperity (a good job) - wow, Baruch was a real dick wasnt he??? Just think of all those horrible things that we can speculate that he might have thought about doing!

Paragraph 8

Although he was firm with Baruch, Jehovah reacted not with anger but with genuine fatherly concern. Evidently, God saw that the man’s desires did not reflect a wicked or devious heart. Jehovah also knew that Jerusalem and Judah were in their last days, and he did not want Baruch to stumble at that critical time. Hence, to bring his servant back to reality, God reminded him that He was “bring in a calamity upon all flesh” adding that if Baruch acted wisely, he would live. In effect, God said:” Be realistic, Baruch. Keep in mind what will soon happen to sinful Judah and Jerusalem. Remain faithful and live! I will protect you.”

Oh so thats what Jehovah meant to say!I mean come on - like be realistic Baruch - dont waste your time being unrealistic, if you do I will kill you at Armageddon. But I love you! I love you and I need money!!!!!!!!"(okay okay - that last bit was Gearoge Carlin ;))

Paragraph 13

Have you ever prayed intensely for help and received an answer in the form of an encouraging visit from a spiritually mature Christina? Or perhaps the help came in the form of a talk at a Christian meeting or information in one of our publications.

Have you ever prayed and been helped by a scripture, or by the bible, or by Jesus or Jehovah? Oh silly me! Of course not!!!! The WTS answered your prayers!!!! We wont even waste our time mentioning all that other stuff!

OMG I dont know how I dont run out of the KH screaming.............

15

Disgusted by Dec 15-21 WT Study

by still_in74 in

for those that read the dec 15-21 study article "jehovahs answer to a heartfelt prayer" in the oct15-08 study edition perhaps you know what i mean.. paragraph 11 - .

throughout the time of the end satan has incited his earthly agents to oppose the anointed remnant and their other sheep companions.

that happened in western europe under the nazis and in eastern europe under the communist government of the soviet union.

still_in74

for those that read the Dec 15-21 study article "Jehovahs answer to a heartfelt prayer" in the Oct15-08 Study Edition perhaps you know what I mean.

Paragraph 11 -

Throughout the time of the end Satan has incited his earthly agents to oppose the anointed remnant and their other sheep companions. That happened in Western Europe under the Nazis and in Eastern Europe under the communist government of the Soviet Union. It also in many other lands, and it will happen again, especially during the final attack of Gog of magog. In that attack, opposers may greedily seize the property and possessions of Jehovah’s people, as enemies have done in the past. Satans main goal, however, has always been to break us up as a people so that our God-given name will be remember no more.

So Satan has caused the Nazis to persecute JW's. So I guess the Jews are the true religion to then? Or were they only persecuted to get to us?

Oh by the way, Satans main purpose of his existence has ALWAYS been to undermine "Jehovahs Witnesses". All of the other evil in the world is just on the side for fun.

Paragraph 18 -

A humiliating end awaits determined opposers of Jehovah’s sovereignty. God’s word reveals that those who ”do not obey the good news” – and for this reason are executed at Armageddon – will suffer “everlasting destruction” Their destruction and the survival of those who worship Jehovah in truth will be convincing evidence that Jehovah is the only true God. In the new world, that great victory will not be forgotten. Those who come back in the “resurrection of ... the righteous and the unrighteous” will learn of Jehovah’s great act. In the new world, they will see convincing evidence of the wisdom of living under Jehovah’s sovereignty. And meek ones among them will quickly be convinced that Jehovah is the only true God.

Anyone else find the word "convince/ing" a bit odd?
Well first off, anyone that does not "obey the good news" will be destroyed - JW or not, if you dont OBEY - you are dead. So who are we "obeying"?
Well Jehovah of course right? WRONG! - obeying the "good news" means obeying the GB. Thus this MEANS - "those who do not obey the GB will suffer everlasing destruction at Armageddon."

So now back to "convincing evidence" - what the hell does that mean? Those who survive armageddon will see "convincing evidence" that jehovah is the only true god? Righteous & unrighteous will see "convincing evidence" in the new world...? WTF? meek ones will be "convinced"?

So the WTS is likening absolute proof with "convincing evidence"? Would not jehovah destroying everyone but JW's be absolute proof? So does this mean that the WTS only needs to present "convincing evidence" in order for R&F to accept as absolute proof?

I found this article rather odd, but very pointed in its focus on scaring the R&F into obedience.... more to come on this WT....

still_in74

Posts by still_in74