Posts by B_Deserter

20

disfellowshipping procedure

by Hangin_on in

i don't understand the whole disfellowshipping procedure, i thought i did at one time but now i don't.

i was df'd for leaving my wife and taking someone else as my wife so i am in an adulterous marriage.

that is a prime example of an action that requires dfing.. however it has been 3 years, i have written 3 - 4 letters.

I couldn't help but notice your ages, 18 and 22. I think the forbidding of sex before marriage is responsible for most Witness divorces. I've seen countless witness couples get married as young as 16 years old. I think it's ridiculous to make someone feel they have to marry someone if they have sexual feelings for that person. All that leads to is teenagers getting married purely so they can have sex. Then, after a few years, they realize that they're really not ready for married life, and that's when most witness divorces happen. I firmly believe that there is NO way to avoid your sexual urges long enough to get married at a decent age. You have these feelings building inside you, and you can't explore them, you can't even masturbate, although I'm willing to bet most witnesses do despite whatever the current youth book says. I'm sorry, but taking a cold shower and doing some exercise is not going to reverse millions of years of biology.

20

How much control does the WTS really have?

by dozy in

a theme regularly running through ex-jw / apostate posts is their conviction that the worship of jws is at best of a high control basis or at worst exhibits cult-like tendencies , so they often delight in the freedom that they now enjoy.. but in reality , how much control is exhibited on the average witness?

to take one example , at least 40k are dfd in an average year , and one would assume 3 - 5x this figure are reproved privately or publicly.

that means that over a 10 year period 20% - 25% of jws are seriously flouting the strongest moral code of jws , usually for immorality , emphasized in wt after wt , meeting after meeting.

B_Deserter

Some ways I've noticed how the society controls its members.

1. Telling you what you think/how you feel. Open up any Watchtower and see how many statements like "As Christians, we are a happy people" are printed. In the few seconds it takes you to read that sentence, a suggestion is implanted into your subconscious mind.

2. Repetition for emphasis. Classic example: 1 Corinthians 15:33. How many of you still remember this scripture by heart? Witnesses are repeatedly warned about bad association, something the passage doesn't define, but the Society does, as anyone outside of its influence.

3. Removal of all life prospects outside the organization. Using the above tactic, they strongly discourage all relationships in "the world." They tell you that everyone in the world is immoral. That the only true friends you'll ever find are exclusively within the organization. They tell you that the world will just "use you and spit you out when it's done." It's harder to leave if by doing so you lose all your friends and family. By discouraging a secular education, they not only ruin your chances of employment and self-reliance. In short, many who leave the org are literally entering the real world as emotionally and functionally stunted children.

4. Usage of Orwellian tactics in shaping the moral code by reassigning virtues like independent thought as vice. "War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery"

I'm sure there's more, but I am tired.

15

Is it easier for a witness (vs Christian) to stop believing in God?

by Guest with Questions in

i dont have any statistics but am curious if there could be any truth to it; that it might be easier for a witness to stop believing vs a christian.

i dont see this at any of the churches i have attended; people leaving in droves with some totally discarding any belief.. 1 the jw org is the only truth.

you question its authority, then you question god.

B_Deserter

Very good post. Witnesses are taught, in a sense, to be skeptics. They do much more research and study than the average Christian. Unfortunately for the society, this sometimes backfires, as every once in a while someone will think too much, and realize it's all bogus. For those witnesses who continue to suspend disbelief, they feel like they've done enough research in the bounds of the society's rules.

15

Is it easier for a witness (vs Christian) to stop believing in God?

by Guest with Questions in

i dont have any statistics but am curious if there could be any truth to it; that it might be easier for a witness to stop believing vs a christian.

i dont see this at any of the churches i have attended; people leaving in droves with some totally discarding any belief.. 1 the jw org is the only truth.

you question its authority, then you question god.

B_Deserter

I'm atheist but the reasons for my being so have little to do with Witnesses themselves, but my objections to the Bible itself. The God of the OT (and to an extent, the NT) is a brutal, immoral dictator. How could a "perfect" God order his followers to commit rape, murder, and torture? How could a "perfect" God order parents to stone their children to death if they happen to get snippy one day? God then abruptly switches character in the NT, becoming this lovely, forgiving, benevolent father figure. Although, he really doesn't mind slavery. The Bible is a thoroughly fragmented book, filled with contradictions and falsehoods. This book claims that God created the same complex life forms we see today just a few thousand years ago. I know the witnesses say that the days are not literally 24-hours long, but still most seem to be under the impression that the earth is still less than 20,000 years old. This notion of the "young earth" has been proven, repeatedly, to be categorically, undeniably false. Then, there is the embarrassing matter of the fossil record, which shows (contrary to the claims of the blue "Evolution" book) simple life forms getting more varied and diverse as time goes by, instead of complex life forms exploding "in the Beginning."

That said, I think it's easier for a witness to not believe in God because many spend their whole lives refuting the biblical interpretations of all the other Churches. If the JW church isn't right, then no church is right, as someone else stated.

76

Why did you leave the org?

by A-Team in

were you dfed, did you find out some lies about the org?.

what was the last straw?

B_Deserter

Where do I start?

1. When I was 8, I mocked a suicide attempt in front of my parents. My mom confided in one of the elders. Pretty soon, my friends stopped inviting me to their homes, and always came up with excuses when I invited them to mine. The elder my mom confided in forbade his children (and warned all the other parents in the hall, I thought sheparding from the elders was supposed to be confidential?) from associating with me. These elders are notorious for violating confidentiality by telling their wives what goes on in the hall. The wives, in turn, gossip about it to the other wives, and consequently ruins your reputation. I always figured isolating someone with suicidal thoughts from their friends does more harm than good, but the elders in the hall I grew up with only concerned with their own families' well-being.

2. The elder body in my hall was (and still is) mostly consisted of fleshly brothers. It really defeats the purpose of having a BODY of elders. They also notoriously shielded their children from punishment when they did something wrong. When I was a kid, a teen boy (elder's son) and girl (dad was worldly) got caught smoking. Teen boy was given private reproof, privileges taken away for less than 1 month. The girl, on the other hand, despite being repentant, was disfellowshipped. She made every meeting for the next year, and when she asked to be reinstated, they told her she wasn't "worthy." She went to another hall, and the elders there reinstated her almost on the spot, despite the strong recommendations against it from her original committee.

3. The incessant browbeating of 1 Corinthians 15:33 over my head for the first two decades of my life, and the fact that the Society pronounces a blanket "bad association" judgment on all those not affiliated with the group.

Despite this, I still had a pretty strong conviction, until a couple years ago when we started studying at Book Study:

4. Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy. This book contains some of the most ludicrous statements I have ever read. It is riddled with logical gulfs, making connections between modern events and the book of Daniel in the same fashion a charlatan like John Edward or Silvia Browne would. The first study in this book start my path to doubt.

5. The fact that the Society lambasts the Council of Nicea for being the start of "apostacy," yet believes that the bible compiled by that very same committee is the complete word of God, despite the fact that there were several other Gospels written that they threw out for theological reasons. Sorry brothers, either the council of Nicea was wrong or they were right, you can't have it both ways.

6. One day, my mom wondered aloud to me, "Why do we insist that people read our literature, but we refuse to read theirs?"

7. The latest debacle with the GB and the FDS, as well as the whole "no shorts/jeans/tshirts after convention" edict was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

13

Bethelites - humbler than thou!

by B_Deserter in

i'm new here and don't know if this has been posted.

have you ever noticed that when a lot of young men return from bethel they have this air of superiority with them?

i've seen people almost literally worship the ground they walk on.

B_Deserter

I'm new here and don't know if this has been posted. Have you ever noticed that when a lot of young men return from Bethel they have this air of superiority with them? I've seen people almost literally worship the ground they walk on. Ever see the snooty "Future Mrs. Elder" groups insist that their husband be a bethelite/pioneer/ministerial servant? Bethelites are the most haughty, self-important, egotistical bullies I have ever met, with few exceptions.

I also noticed a fad lately with elders' kids going to the Dominican Republic to "serve where the need is greater." From what I hear its more like a Witness version of Spring Break. I even used to go to a hall with a Spanish congregation, the vast majority made up of NON-NATIVE speakers!

45

DO THE MEMBERS OF THE GB BELIEVE THEIR OWN PROPAGANDA?

by nvrgnbk in

B_Deserter

They at least fool themselves into believing what they teach. I think when organizational arrangements and doctrines are changed, they probably honestly believe its God's Will and part of the "New Light." In reality, these "convenient" changes are subconscious. They *want* to change a doctrine because it will avoid lawsuits, and lo and behold, God agrees!

I also think they must read "apostate" arguments and criticism (even though they forbid "common" witnesses from doing so). The Society isn't forthcoming about its history and wrong predictions? Enter the Proclaimers Book in 1993, which provides enough information for the average witness to simultaneously be proud of the "progress" made as the "light gets brighter," and have a new mental opiate to help roll their eyes and dismiss any criticism of the society. I know this for a fact, because I did it when my disfellowshipped brother tried to talk to us about doctrinal changes. I shrugged my shoulders and said, "yeah, I knew all that, it was wrong, and we no longer believe it. The information is right there in the Proclaimers Book, so what's your point?" Funny how the Proclaimers book doesn't mention that even though doctrines like the cross and birthdays/holidays were found to be in error in 1917, they weren't done away with until many years AFTER they received God's Holy Spirit, which was withdrawn earlier than 1917 because they were doing the same thing they were doing afterwards.

Does that mean that simply acknowledging something is wrong is enough to get God's spirit, even if you continue to observe the practice?

47

How did you feel when first posting on JWD?

by R.F. in

i was in heavy doubt about the organization, but still in the back of my mind i was a bit hesitant of posting because it was the "unforgivable sin".

i think it took me 20 minutes to type my first post.

i still felt that once i submitted my post that a bolt of lightning was going to come down upon me, so my hands were shaking as i was typing.

B_Deserter

I just posted for the first time today, so the feeling is still fresh in my mind. Like most of you, I am scared shitless. No, I don't believe that the society is "watching" me. My experience being raised as a Witness was not nearly as traumatic as others. However, even though I have admitted to myself that I don't believe in God, I still *fear* God immensely, and not in the "good" sense either. I feel guilty I don't believe the doctrines anymore, even though I *know* it's all bunk. I think the main reason is when my family finds out, they're going to be devastated. It does not feel good causing so much anguish to others. I bought "The God Delusion" today at a book store. I was so nervous I was shaking in my shoes. I could barely work up the courage to ask the store employee where it was (oddly enough, it was in the "Judaism" section.....yeah, figure that one out!). That good ol' "Apostate" label is going to probably be applied to me, even though I have absolutely no plans to try and de-convert any witnesses I know. What a shutteringly scary label that is! Apostates are the ultimate evil, forged hand in hand with Satan himself. I can remember how they would talk about Apostates from the stage, how *I* would talk about Apostates. Now, I'm going to be considered one of them.

35

How did bible story pictures affect you?

by unique1 in

edited because someone came through with the picture and i think this deserves it's own topic.. i am deathly, i mean deathly afraid of snakes.

most people don't understand or grasp the exent i am afraid of them until they see the ultimate reaction.

my husband witnessed the worst one since we have been together the other week.

B_Deserter

I thought the pictures were pretty cool actually. Maybe it's a male, middle-America, Hunting culture thing. Since I work in a slaughterhouse now, I could say that the Bible Story Book helped train me for my career!

26

Latest Society edict: proper dress after conventions

by B_Deserter in

i left the organization in my heart a year ago, i stopped going to meetings a week ago.

this was recently announced for the upcoming convention.

jeans and t-shirts are not to be worn in public after each day's convention program.

B_Deserter

I left the organization in my heart a year ago, I stopped going to meetings a week ago. This was recently announced for the upcoming convention. Jeans and T-shirts are not to be worn in public after each day's convention program. Witnesses are to dress "business casual" (Khakis, polos, etc) when in the main areas of the hotel, restaurants, etc. I was planning on going swimming at the hotel, too, but unfortunately I don't have any Khakis or polos to ruin ;)