B_Deserter

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Posts by B_Deserter

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  13

  I'm getting married!

  by B_Deserter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  about 6 months ago i started dating a non-witness.

  our relationship has grown quite quickly and a few weeks ago i proposed to her.

  we are now in the midst of wedding and house-buying plans.

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  B_Deserter

  About 6 months ago I started dating a non-witness. Our relationship has grown quite quickly and a few weeks ago I proposed to her. We are now in the midst of wedding and house-buying plans. I was reading through some of my initial posts from two years ago (man has it already been that long?) and was thinking wow, how much have I "progressed" out of the JWs. I can say I'm probably the happiest right now that I've ever been in my life, and I can't be more thankful for this forum which has provided me so much support throughout my journey.
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  111

  The Watchtower Didn't Make Me An Atheist

  by B_Deserter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ive posted on this before, but i figured i should lay my thoughts out again on the subject.

  there are some in the ex-jw community who are saddened because the watchtower organization has turned me and others like me off to god.

  the watchtower attacks and debunks other religions on a regular basis, often giving us the sense that if the watchtower is wrong, then there cant be a god.

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  B_Deserter

  I’ve posted on this before, but I figured I should lay my thoughts out again on the subject. There are some in the ex-JW community who are saddened because the Watchtower organization has turned me and others like me “off to God.” I understand why they feel that way. The Watchtower attacks and debunks other religions on a regular basis, often giving us the sense that if the Watchtower is wrong, then there can’t be a God. It’s either their way or the highway.

  With this in mind, it is admittedly easy to think that just by debunking the Watchtower means that a Jehovah’s Witness will become an atheist. Naturally, this is not always the case. Ray Franz, a prominent figure in the ex-JW community, is still a bible-believing Christian as are many others of his generation. So why am I and other ex-JWs atheists?

  Before I answer that question, I want to make mention of some attitudes I’ve perceived in still-religious ex-JWs I’ve encountered. The first one is that it seems hard for some to fathom that atheism can be a rational conclusion, having nothing to do with a bad experience with religion. I understand how hard it can be for a devoted Christian to recognize this. He or she may feel that accepting the atheist position as a rational one is to denounce Christianity as irrational. But that still doesn’t mean that I haven’t done my homework.

  Atheists and Christians really aren’t that different. I, like most Christians, reject 99.9999% of all the Gods man has ever worshipped. I don’t believe that Apollo tows the sun across the sky in a golden chariot. I don’t believe that dying in honorable combat will reap rewards for me in Valhalla. I don’t believe that if my corpse is mummified in the proper 70-day ritual it will become reanimated each night and I will get to have sex with the goddess of the sky.

  On all of these possibilities and many more I take the exact same position as many Christians do: they’re ridiculous and I don’t believe in them. The only difference is that I simply go one God further. I don’t see any reason to believe the Bible over any other of these ancient mythologies. I am simply treating it as I believe it should be treated, and not accepting simply because of the completely improbable accident that I was born in a Christian household in the USA. In other words, I look at the Bible as objectively as I can, without using any form of apologetics or “that scripture doesn’t really mean what it says” rigomoroll. I simply do not accept the Bible as the Word of any God.

  That is why I left the Witnesses. Not because I had a bad experience or got in a fight with someone, but because when I looked at the Bible with an unbiased mindset, I was not convinced of its divine authorship. Since I didn’t believe the Bible to be what the Witnesses claimed, their specific doctrinal points ceased to matter. It didn’t really matter to me whether or not 1914 was an accurate calculation. It didn’t matter whether or not Birthdays and the holidays were wrong. It didn’t matter whether or not Paul’s words about blood included transfusions or not.

  Basically, I didn’t deconvert from Jehovah’s Witnesses and decide there was nowhere else to go. I deconverted from Christianity as a whole, and it wouldn’t have mattered if I was a Jehovah’s Witness or a Mormon or a Lutheran or a Catholic. I stopped believing in the supernatural. Did the Watchtower have a role in my development as a skeptical person? Perhaps, but I still took it further than what even the Watchtower intended, and didn’t find the Bible as convincing as others have.

  That’s why I almost find it insulting when other claim it was the Watchtower who turned me off to God. To me, it’s implying that I didn’t put any thought into it whatsoever, that it was an emotional response and I’m still under the spell of Watchtower reasoning. Atheists come from every religion and every denomination, not just the Witnesses, and the idea that no one can read the Bible without becoming convinced its the word of God is, pardon my bluntness, quite arrogant I think.
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  8

  Kingdom Hall a labor of love - in our local paper today

  by insearchoftruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  B_Deserter

  Why does every news article about JWs have to mention something negative about them? Seriously, does the blood issue really have anything to do with building a Kingdom hall? I mean 300 people framed an office building in 3 days...so what? It's a new building, it's newsworthy, and nothing in the article is incorrect. I don't understand why so many of us ex-JWs seems to feel so threatened just because they get a bit of positive publicity once in a while.
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  21

  Awakened at Gilead,former J.W. missionary on the conference call Sat.May9

  by koolaid-man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  our special guest on the six screens of the watchtower conference call, saturday may 9, 7 p.m.est will be a former jehovah's witness gilead graduate and missionary.

  his electrifying you tube videos are attracting many people and exposing the watchtower for so many of their false doctrines.

  you may know him better as awakened at gilead who will fill us in on what really goes on behind the "spurious" doors of gilead.so do something extraordinary this saturday,dial in to the conference call.

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  B_Deserter

  Just listened to it when I noticed it was up on the website. Great job Lance and everybody. I like how well it was steered clear of being an all-out atheist-vs-Christian debate. There were a few jabs from both sides, but nothing that erupted into something that didn't have anything to do with the topic. Like Rick said, we are all brothers when it comes to bringing down the Watchtower.
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  41

  Name Things You Can Do Now That You Couldn't As A Witness

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a couple of things that come to mind: celebrate holidays and go tieless..

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  B_Deserter

  I blogged about this but I'll repost here:

  15 Freedoms I’ve Gained From Leaving Jehovah’s Witnesses

  1. Not having to schedule my life around the meetings. No more turning down a job because it’s 2nd shift, requires more availability, etc.
  2. Not having to think about what a movie is rated and if I’m “allowed” to go see it.
  3. Being able to keep books that disagree with the organization on my bookshelf.
  4. Being able to say “Happy Birthday,” “Happy Thanksgiving,” and “Merry Christmas” to people at work.
  5. Not having to force apathy when a political conversation comes up.
  6. Being able to vote and take part in the political process.
  7. Not worrying if I’m going to need blood if I’m in an accident.
  8. No more feeling guilty about missing an opportunity for informal witnessing.
  9. Being able to go out to a bar once in a while.
  10. Being able to join clubs and associate with groups of people who share my interests.
  11. Being able to suggest the governing body might be mistaken about something without being branded a “bad associate.”
  12. No more feeling guilty because I missed the meeting.
  13. Being able to ride in a car alone with my girlfriend.
  14. Being able to just go see a movie on the spur of the moment with my girlfriend without having to spend 3 hours calling around for a chaperone.
  15. Being able to read any book I want to or have a magazine subscription without feeling guilty because I’m not caught up with the “greatest magazines on earth,” the Watchtower and Awake.

  Someone also added these in a comment:

  16. Having extra cash in your pocket that would of went on that third suit in a lighter shade of grey
  17. Being able to watch a movie with friends and not feel a drop of cold sweat roll down your down your back when somebody swears
  18. Being able to watch a nature documentary and not have to switch it off when they start talking about evolution
  19. Making friends that are actual real friends and not ones that judge you by your monthly service report
  20. Meeting with people to share ideas, instead of just gossip about other brothers and sisters because that is the only new information you have acquired that week.
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  5

  As a JW...ever experience a coincidence and thought it was divine intervention?

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was listening to internet radio and an old black sabbath song came on...from their first album, not a "hit", one of the lesser played tunes.. well, it jogged my memory for some reason and i remembered this incidence in school, about 6th or 7th grade.

  black sabbath was just gaining popularity then and i remember in one class where some guys were talking about it.

  i knew just enough about them that i "knew" they were demonic and not proper for a jw to listen to.

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  B_Deserter

  Man Jehovah must have been more concerned for you than he was for me. Black Sabbath instantly became one of my favorite bands and I listened to them over and over again as a dub without incident. I can't imagine though what it must have been like hearing that kind of music for the first time. Actually being there to hear the birth scream of heavy metal, man you are fortunate.
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  25

  401k Accounts Frozen!

  by sammielee24 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by eleanor laise.

  some investors in 401(k) retirement funds who are moving to grab their money are finding they can't.. even with recent gains in stocks such as monday's, the months of market turmoil have delivered a blow to some 401(k) participants: freezing their investments in certain plans.

  in some cases, individual investors can't withdraw money from certain retirement-plan options.

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  B_Deserter

  That's why I pulled all my money out of the bank and stuffed it in my mattress next to my guns!

  If you need the guns in your mattress, chances are the money you have is worthless anyway. It'd probably be best if you spent that money on more guns.
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  44

  Bethelite reverence

  by Waffles in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have any of you had the experience of a bethelite brother visiting your kh?.

  here's how it always seemed to go in my experience:.

  there is a general kh-wide excitement in the air that a real, live bethelite rockstar is at the hall; overheard are numerous convo's featuring words like "o, he's a bethelite".. visiting brother bethelite gives the closing prayer and is immediately mobbed by adoring fans.. all the single sisters are on high alert, you can smell the estrogen in the air.

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  B_Deserter

  I remember this one kid who came back after 1 year of Bethel and acted like he was the hottest shit in the world. My mom went up to talk to him and he was like "I'm not going to shake your hand until you guess why." He wasn't being rude or anything, just thought he was being insanely clever and was showcasing his apparently amazing mental powers he acquired doing menial labor for a monthly allowance that would make a 12-year-old complain.

  He also loved to tie his necktie with an insanely huge knot. Apparently the "Bethel knot" is all the rage up there in Brooklyn. Even when I was a dub I knew I never wanted to be a bethelite because I knew they were usually pompous asses. I always cringed when someone would talk about what a "humbling experience" Bethel is.
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  22

  Athiests: Do You Hate Religion?

  by shamus100 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hmm?.

  i don't hate religion, personally.

  it may sound like i hate it on this forum, but nothing could be farther from the truth.

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  B_Deserter

  I don't like religious belief in general because it glorifies the suspension of the mechanism to sort out truth from falsehoods. The average person, religious or not, doesn't believe everything he or she hears or reads. That would result in disaster. Con-men would rule the earth and society would crumble. But, religion is something that is drilled into us when we are young so that our attachment to it is beyond something rational, it's emotional. I don't think most Christians could honestly say that they wouldn't laugh at the idea of people taking the Bible as the literal truth of God if they hadn't been exposed to it until adulthood. How do I know that? Because those same Christians snicker at the idea of Joseph Smith reading golden plates or that our brains are all infected by alien ghosts, despite the fact that there is no objective, logical evidence to suggest that those stories are any less likely than the one about Jesus. The only reason they don't laugh at the latter is because they were rasied with and are therefore used to that story.

  Religion is the temporary removal of our critical thinking processes in order to accept a certain set of beliefs based on emotional rather than logical criteria. The same people who say "The Bible Says It, I Believe It, That Settles It" would be among the staunchest skeptics if it came to the Koran or the Vedas. Even theistic biologists like Ken Miller seem to suspend their critical thinking skills when it comes to the existence of God.

  Even that being said, if religious thinking kept to religious ideas I wouldn't have a problem with it. If you want to believe that the Lord Jehoover is the Most High over all the earth and go to meetings every week to talk about it, more power to you. The problem comes when religious thinking starts occurring outside the bounds of religious belief. The problem is that people who suspend their logical and critical thinking centers for religion often end up doing so for other things, sometimes sinister, sometimes neutral. Religion puts many people into a "mode" where they are like children and will accept anything a perceived authority figure will tell them. This is precisely why I think quack medicine is making such a comeback in the United States. It's hard not to notice that these so-called "alternative cures" are often pushed by the most religious.

  Although positive actions are often promoted by religions, the fact that they have religious reasons behind them don't really make them genuine IMO. How is one to objectively know that God said to feed the hungry or to kill the dirty ethnic group? Both have about the same rational backing, and both have the same real authority behind them: the word of a man. There is a lot of hate in the world that would disappear overnight if there were no religious or otherwise irrational justification available for it.

  That said, it isn't just religion that's the problem, it's irrationality that is the problem. Religion is just one irrational behavior. The non-theist totalitarian governments of this world may not be religious in the normal sense, but they are every bit as irrational as the Scientologists or the snake-handlers. The same critical thinking centers are suspended in order to worship Kim Jong-Il as they are to worship Krishna.
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  8

  A special series of Articles

  by B_Deserter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've decided to write a series of articles aimed not at jws or ex-jws, but non-jws caught in the "crossfire" between the individual and the organization.

  too often the loved ones of ex-jws feel like they're on the sidelines when it comes to religious issues.

  i wanted to help the woman who's husband still won't decorate the christmas tree, the man who's wife will cook a ham but won't hide eggs for the kids on easter, or just anyone wondering why their significant other is being shunned by his/her family at the behest of a book publishing corporation.

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  B_Deserter

  I've decided to write a series of articles aimed not at JWs or ex-JWs, but non-JWs caught in the "crossfire" between the individual and the organization. Too often the loved ones of ex-JWs feel like they're on the sidelines when it comes to religious issues. I wanted to help the woman who's husband still won't decorate the Christmas tree, the man who's wife will cook a ham but won't hide eggs for the kids on Easter, or just anyone wondering why their significant other is being shunned by his/her family at the behest of a book publishing corporation. I want to help them understand not just what the JW religion teaches, but how those teachings still might be affecting their loved one even though they've left the church. I want to help them understand why leaving Jehovah's Witnesses isn't a trivial matter like leaving most other churches is.
  
  I've written a short introduction as well as the first three articles already, which can be found here:
  
  http://www.godless-heathen.com/?p=326